Bearded Dragon's can use SAND !!!!!

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Mesavotz, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    First of all I am not here all day long I do work so thank you all for saying I ignore questions and statements. Sheesh lol. You all can think and do what you all want to and that is cool with everyone else on here because you all seem to think you know everything about the Dragon, but maybe there is just a few things that NOONE knows about these BEAUTIFUL animal's. First of ALL AND LAST I said if I noticed that something was going wrong I would have changed the sand to something else, but for the past 2 years and a couple months that I have had my Dragon she has been fine and still is. If ever I see her sick and not eating or vomiting etc anything like that I would stop it ASAP. I am NOT trying to KILL my pet like some of you have stated which makes me sick to my stomache to even believe that their are people that actually think an animal lover of all kinds would do such a thing. Sorry I ever posted anything on this site some of you are too judgemental just like Clainet and also now jaykemper by saying that I said Clairnet was being disrespectful. If you read all that again you would simply see that I called noone anything. So please re read things before you make a statement that you have simply and honestly read wrong.

    As for all the web site's that you all post on here . Yes thank you and I have read almost all of them about the sand, but sorry for me if 50 people use sand and another 50 use something else unlike the sand both Dragon's can die at the same time or age or maybe the one that stays on the sand can outlive the other Dragon. It is not ONLY about if I use sand or not now is it ? No I do not think so even though a few of you seem to think that I am trying to kill my own pet ( sorry that makes me laugh ) I think it makes a difference in the amount of water and food I give Creme and the lighting and seeing if I do not get her body temp to a not so normal temp for a Dragon. It is not just about the sand or the towel's or even the artificial grass or anything else that people use for the Dragon its about everything plus the bedding you put in their cage. So look please back off ok I am content with the sand that I am using for my Dragon and I am sorry that some of you disagree with what I choose to do with my pet.

    Clarinet45 once again at least I was being honest about my other Dragon and you are taking all this to a different level if you want to be like that then cool that is on you, but if I was you I would stop comparing thing's . It's not the same ok and I have explained to you all that in the best of details that I can. I did NOT have to come on here and tell a bunch of strangers anything did I ? NO it was MY choice and it is now my choice to not talk to you about that other situation. That is all I have to say about that and that is the last time I talk to you or anyone on here about my other Dragon. PERIOD..

    DARN I never thought that some people on a WEB SITE and NOT in person can be so hurtful to other's. You all are wow I have no word's. For you all to really think I would kill my animal. WOW what nerve.
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. mthorpe

    mthorpe Well-Known Member

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    We all know that you care about your animal, thats why you have come here (i would hope), but what your failing to realise, is that there arent any restrictions what so ever on what the companies can put on the packaging. there have been chemical experiments which proove that calci sand isnt digestable, that cannot be disputed. period.

    If it isnt digestable, it will get stuck in the digestive tract, this builds up over time, and can lead to impactions, just because it hasnt happened to you, that doesnt mean it wont happen, or cant happen. if your dragon gets impacted, normally the symptoms dont start showing untill its far too late, they are very good at hiding they are ill... by the time they give you signals, its normally very serious, leading to high vets bills/possibly death.


    Calci sand is a VERY dangerous substrate for your animal. period. it has caused hundreds of deaths in beardies, as well as other reptiles.
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    Lets just drop this. This guy isn't listening, and while he may not be trying to actively kill his beardie, he obviously doesn't have the sense enough to believe the facts. Unfortunately that will be his sorrow when his beardie dies from an impaction. But we will all have clean consciences, knowing that we did try to get him to see the error of his ways.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    LMFAO Clarinet45 you are funny. Not every reptile owner know's that there is this site. I just told some people that I know about this site and I also let some people that I never met face to face, but met on messangers that there is a reptile site. I bet you never knew that you can purchase a Dragon or any other reptile for a really cheap price on the internet right ? You can actually get what my friend on line just got 2 healthy Iguanas sent to him because yes they ship and he paid less then $75.00 for both and shipping then a friend of his just placed an order for a Bearded Dragon and a Skink and paid less then what I paid for my one Dragon. Amazing huh ? how much you learn from other's, BUT do let me say this much to you. I read all about Dragon's everything I can find out I read it and then some. i have purchased book's and I even belong to a reptile magazine club for the past year so no just because you have a pet does NOT mean you go to web site's. Tell you one thing here and now if I knew what I know now about some of the people that come on here and post and say NEGATIVE thing's to other's then I would never have joined. I thought that this was just a normal site that you came to and talked about your pet's and maybe yes shared pic's, but I did not know that with that came with JUDGING other's. Sorry Clarinet45 but that really is not my style. If someone came and posted on here that they did not do the same thing I did or I thought that something that they were doing was " dangerous" I would give my advice , but I would not keep it up and talk about other subject's with them like you keep doing here to me. Yes I lost a Dragon nothing last's forever OK and yes I felt bad that is why I waited for almost a year to get a new one. Then I came on here talked about what I use and that I lost a Dragon at yes the age of 6 and all of a sudden it was because of the sand WHICH I NEVER USED with my other Dragon and other stuff like that. SOME PET'S are SOLD NOT SO HEALTHY to people. You buy fish and maybe a dog or cat that might get sick within a year of having him/her and they die on you. Come on be realistic now. Anything can happen to any of our animal's at any time so please I ask you do not hate me or judge me because you do not use sand . If you ever come to NJ lol I will be more then happy to show you my Dragon in person so you will see how fine, healthy,active she is and how well she eat's her veggie's and cricket's and also the worm's. That is all I ask do not judge me for using sand for Creme she is fine and doing very good. I take her outside and put her in the bath i squirt her with water and I do everything that another Dragon owner is doing with theirs and mine is just as healthy as the next one. I guess I am doing something right then huh ? She is long and not thin her eyes are open and she is not vominting or having the diareah. She bask's and lay's down over the tunnel :( I love her and trust me I am not trying to hurt her. I would never hurt any of my animal's and i have many . I have my Dragon, 8 bird's now (just bought another one today) , 4 dogs, a guinee pig, a rat, fish, frogs 5 male beta's and a cat.. out of all my pet's i have adopted 3 ( 2 bird's and my rat they all have a deformity) , 1 was give to me and I saved one of my dog's live's ( he was being treated horrible and tied to a radiator at all times ) I am the one that take's the pet's that noone else want's or cant afford to take care of. Like i said come to NJ and I will show you my pet's and you can see for your own eye's that my Dragon is GREAT . Until that ever happen's keep your thoughts about my other Dragon and this one to yourself. Trust in me I will NEVER EVER post again after you are all done bashing me for using sand on my Dragon. You have all made something nice turn rotten really quick and others will get tired of it all too.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    One last thing...the biggest thing i think you aren't getting is the difference between SAND and CALCI-SAND. No one here is saying sand is bad to use, although it does have its risks, i know tons of people who use sand with no problems. Sand (as in fine grain washed play sand) is fine enough that mostly it can pass through the system. Calci-sand is completely different, it is larger and more jagged and has a much harder time passing through your dragons system. If you take nothing else away from all this, please take with you the knowledge that Calci-sand is very different than sand.
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    ReptileCrazy what fact's that your Dragon can pass away before or after mine and you do not use sand ? OMG come on already give it all a rest. My bad for posting this subject. My Dragon is most likely as healthy if not healthier then your's. I have read some thing's about some sickly Dragon's on here and they DO NOT USE SAND. So are you telling them that they are feeding to much or the lighting is not good enough ? Are you telling them that they are not listening to your fact's ? Sheesh darn what made all you the Dragon expert ? reading some web site's ? Did any of you go to School to learn about reptile's and the way that they lived and live now and suppose to live ? IF NOT THEN KEEP YOUR OPINIONS to yourself's. Do any of you even work in a pet store or breed these animals ? Oh wait that is right what was I thinking you all think pet store owner's are cruel also cause some of them use sand. LOL whatever.

    Enjoy your Dragon's and all your other pet's for all of us only have ONE life to live so live it to the fullest extent cause there might not be a tomorrow. Hope that all your Dragon's live a long healthy life if not call me I can give you some hint's on how to keep one but then again I lost one at the age of 6 so yes that means to most of you that I do not take care of my pet's the right way ? Guess none of your pet's passed away at a younger age then you were told right ? But then again why would they you all seem to have the answer's. Well gee you know a lot about dogs and other pet's also ? OR just the Dragon and no sand ?

    Oh yeah so you do not think I am ignoring you I am going to dinner i'll be back later. :(

    Trust in my word's I do not hate any of you I listen to what you all have to say , but sorry for real I am , but my Dragon is healthy you all saw pic's of her to me she looks fine matter of fact she looks a lot like most of yours maybe a little smaller or longer, but the same in other ways just that mind and some others are on sand and some of yours is not. Look at some of the pics on here you will see SOME on sand.. Ciao for now
     
  12. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    One more thing here then I use not play sand here is what I use .. this is for the cricket's which is suppose to be used or is that wrong too LOL Calcium with Vitamins from Rep Cal and I am using this for the " bedding " Vita-Sand from ZooMed OR Desert Blend Lizard Litter. That is what I have been using. well dinner is calling so take care - Ciao
     
  13. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    1,957
    Im not sure where you got that from? I didn't say anything about my dragon living longer or shorter than yours at all.

    I was just concerned because in all these posts you seem to group calci-sand and sand together, when they are very different. i simply wanted to make sure you understood the difference.



    That is simply just silly, why would you say something like that? you know nothing about my dragon or my husbandry.

    As a matter a fact, many of the people who have responded are breeders. That was one of the points i was trying to make earlier. and most of the links we gave to you were from studies conducted from vetrinarians, or x-rays preformed (obviously) by a vetrinarian. I have, in the past, bred my dragon, although i wouldn't consider myself a breeder.

    Unfortunately i think you are very misinformed. This website is set up by long term keepers and breeders. I dont know how much you know about statistics, but the idea is that the more dragons you have had experience with, the more evidence you can have to back up your arguments. Many people on this site run rescues, or at least take in rescues,....many of them that come with a calci-sand impaction, many people on this site have been keeping and breeding beardies for years. giving them (statistically) much more experience than your 2 years with calci-sand. If they say its bad, its because over the years and the dozens of dragons they have owned they have found it to be bad.

    that fact is all anyone is trying to get across.
     
  14. TáriStar

    TáriStar Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mesavotz, I am sorry that you feel this way about the people of this site-- It is however a know fact that you started here with a very touchy subject with people.

    Sand is probably the most touchy subject next to feeding pinkie mice to bearded dragons (which is in my opnion and that of a large majority of vets BAD).

    I will tell you from my own expirence, When I forst started with Beardies I had Luna. He was a beautiful baby that I bought from a local shop. Now they didn't use sand there but I read the bags and see that they all say SAFE and NON TOXIC. So o0o0o0 Silly me, why have not I gotten this sooner? so i bought two bags and put luna on it. He did fine for months. One day I wake up and he's looking a little pale and won't eat or drink. After taking him to the vet... now this is the best part. The vet says that he's fine, The next week Luna died. A second opnion from a close friend whom works at an animal hospital told me that Luna's death was due to a sand impaction.

    Not all people agree on things, but many people feel very passionate about their reptiles-- and don't get me wrong I am not saying that you love your animals any less. After looking into everything there is no regulation on the packages of our pets things such as lights and decorations.

    Many of these people whom replied-- like me have lost a reptile or even two of them to sand impactions and many of us never want to see this happen ever again.
     
  15. D00M

    D00M Well-Known Member

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    Read the articles on impaction and on sand use. Be educated by them. Then make a choice. House your beardie on sand or not. Its your choice. No one here is telling you what to do. Most people prefer not to take any risk but If you want to use sand, go ahead! It is your lizard and entierly your choice.

    What you dont want to do is go to a forum where everyone is an enemy of sand and post that It's good. This is just plain dumb and I know that you knew It was going to start this big debate. You made your choice. Fine. I know you may have intended this post to be 'educational' and show that not all sand Is bad. And your right, not all sand Is, but look what It has become. A huge argument. I would not be surprised If this was locked by a mod. Everyone has an opionion. Dont go yelling at someone to change it. Its their choice. And I mean that for everyone. The thread starter and the replyers. This is a forum. An educational and fun forum. Start arguments elsewhere or when they really matter.
     
  16. mklein

    mklein New Member

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    From what I gather calci sand is not the best substrate...especially for younger BDs. With this kind of substrate you should NEVER let insects/etc. roam free where BD is likely to eat sand with meal.

    I DO trust members on this site and I DO believe that calci-sand <generally> isn't the best medium.

    It's tough...because I love the look...but you must heed all caution if you're going to go this way. Yes...you can use sand...but you must realize downside.

    Many members here have multiple dragons and are pet owners...not breeders. Most breeders who wrote older books don't mention downside of sand because they are often raising BDs outdoors on hard-pack dirt outside.
     
  17. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    RetileCrazy I was just saying that did not mean anything by it so sorry if you took it the wrong way, but it is the truth though. You know what I mean ? It's like ok you do not agree with the sand method , but really my Creme is doing fine you have seen pic's of her and lol sorry to say , but she look's a lot like your's does :( mine opens her mouth while basking at time's cant say all the time , but at times she does. Its ok for all to make their statements i gather that is what this site is for , but really I would do something about it if i saw she was like i stated earlier not eating or not alert like she is now staring at me :) or not moving right way . I have an appointment at the vet in Bloomfield on Monday with her to get a check up and also to get her nails cut because they are sharp and i will see what they say about her. If they see one small thing wrong in any way shape or form i will go out and get something else for " bedding " but if they tell me she is fine then i will stick with the sand for awhile and i will try that shelf liner and see if she likes it if not then sorry but back to the sand. its really her choice after the vet and when i clean her cage which i do often. i take her out clean all the sand out of the cage and wash the cage down with plain water and then refill the cage with clean sand and i clean the outside of the cage with small amounts of glass cleaner then put her back in after i put all her basking and tunnel dishes back to where they are because Dragons do not like change all that much. But i will let you know what the vet says on Monday or Tuesday whenever i have time to make it on here. i will even take pic's of her at the vet and after the vet and you will see she is looking very pretty like alway's. ok my promise to you only ReptileCrazy i will try the shelf liner next week when i clean her cage after the vet's and see if she likes it... Ciao =)
     
  18. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    lol. Well thanks for agreeing to try something different. Its great you take your beardie to the vet for regular check ups, not nearly enough people actually do that. While you are at the vet maybe you can ask him about the sand anyway, just see what his opinion is about it, it might be interesting.

    I used to have Hanny (my beardie) on play sand for a couple years, in fact the only reason i kept her on it for so long (i didnt really like it, it was a pain in the ass to keep cleaning) is because i thought she really liked it and would be bummed if i took it away. Well, i changed it and she didn't seem to care one way or the other.

    An interesting thing to note though, if your Creme really likes digging and making a mess in the sand you could always use the shelf liner or similar substrate and give her a kitty litter pan of sand to play in. Limiting the sand to one spot in the cage minimizes the chance that she will ingest it and cause an impaction. Actually i kinda feel like a dummy for not mentioning this sooner! it might have stopped all the arguing, lol.
     
  19. mklein

    mklein New Member

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    I used to think sand was more hygenic?....however after using spoon and sifter to pick up poops...I realize "urine" runs thru sand and it's harder to clean after all...

    My vet said sand was "ok" (with caveats I mention above)...but not "best" substrate.

    I am currently using "death sand" (vita-sand) with Sparky...and am evaluating other options (carpet)...my BD is sick...and I want to eliminate any questions...
     
  20. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    1,957
    if you are looking into other options mklien, especially if your dragon is sick, you may find shelf liner works for you. its easy to keep clean, and where your dragon is ill its very important to keep the tank clean :(
     
  21. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    yes Creme loves to dig especially around sleep time and under the tunnel . she also loves to stand on her back leg's and scratch at the side of the cage guess she is telling me to take her out for a bit when she does that :( not so sure about that one unless she is doing some excercising heehee. today i gave her 4 fat worms they are so nasty looking and she gobbled them down real quick. i only give her maybe 10 a week but at different periods of the week cause i heard that they if not chewed down can actually bite the Dragon just like when i put 30 large crickets in her cage if she say eats a little more then half then at night i am skimming some out due to the fact that they attack the Dragon. so you see i am cautions about some things that i have seen and heard about just not all :) but i will ask the vet about the sand but hmmm isnt shelf lining that sticky paper you put on a cabinet shelf ? just curious because i do not think i have seen other stuff besides that in stores. if so then how does the Dragon keep the belly warm in the winter ? i mean that stuff in cabinet's does get cold in winter i have some lining for my kitchen drawers ?? thanks again ReptileCrazy
     
  22. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    1,957
    I have never used shelf liner personally, but from what i gather there is a non-adhesive kind that you dont have to stick down. as long as keep their bellys warm, most dragons don't have a problem but if you are concerned or feel like spoiling your baby (lol!) you can just put an UTH in one area and it will warm that section of the liner. Its a bit differnt in your lizards cage vs in the cabinet though, because the overhead lamps you heat the terrarium with will heat up the liner as well.

    if your dragon enjoys the sand that much she might really benefit from having a "sand box" to play in.

    ((Speaking of gross worms, i just started hanny and the others on silkworms...talk about a mess, they have these disgusting brown guts...ew. hanny gets them everywhere when she eats them...but she shovels them down, she will grab 4-5 in a mouthful if she can get her jaws around them. lol))
     
  23. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    mklien may i ask why is your Dragon sick ? if you went to the vet then they should have told you something right ? hope he (from name Sparky i'm assuming its a male :( ) is ok.

    That is what I do usually if not cleaning whole tank that day i siff out the dirty sand with a used for my Dragons tank only strainer like you would use for small sifting. i am a baker so i hope you all know what i mean by small sifter :) but that is easy to do and i never clean when Creme is in cage i do it when she is roaming around the floor .
     
  24. hornedfrog

    hornedfrog Member

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    485
    There are a couple of very long posts on mklein's sick dragon. It might save him some explanation if you just read those.
     
  25. Mesavotz

    Mesavotz New Member

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    lol ReptileCrazy that is cool with your Dragon shoving them nasty things down her belly, but these gross creatures are those mega worms YUCK they have like a million legs and are kind of fat. lol they look like a rounded off thousand legger and they creep me out a lot , but Creme loves them.

    So i take it for granted you use artificial grass maybe for your Dragon then or something else that is easy to clean up their mess ? Yes the " play ground " with the sand would be great now that my friends cousin is making me a big new cage with more items and room for her to live in and climb on she will have a lot more room then she does now. i would love to get a new baby Iguana after I clean out Creme's now home and put the Iggy in there for now then as that grows have a cage made for him/her also. i use to have a huge long tank that would cover most of my bedroom wall which i have a normal size room 9x12 and the tank would cover most of the wall it was huge and i gave that away :( ( stupid me ) lol

    Maybe i will get my Iggy from a web page that i saw on here where the Dragon,Iggy and other reptiles are cheaper . Not sure yet. my friend got one from that site and it appears to be nice and green and healthy looking. we will see. ok shower time for work is tomorrow :) will let you know what happens ReptileCrazy =)
     

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