Bearded Dragon's can use SAND !!!!!

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Mesavotz, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. clarinet45

    clarinet45 Well-Known Member

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    I actually tested the humidity thing. It's usually at least 30-45% here[in the house] and i just got a 100gal, i set them up the exact same. One side for feng, one for kratos. I put feng in the earth cause she loves it, but i put paper towels down in kratos' tank. I monitored it over a week and Feng's cage was an average 45% with a water bowl, 53 when it rains. Kratos' was an average of 42 to 43% with a water bowl of the same size. also hit 50% or more when raining. I was told not to worry about humidity unless it hits 60% or more *consistenly*.
    I do clean relgiously, and i since i hear the 'particle substrates harbor bacteria' thing i almost have them paper towel trained. they still like to poo in the bath or veggie dish [:)]
    As for impaction, i feed outside the tank and i sift out all the big pieces. i would consider it the same concerns/steps have to be taken with playsand, and i respect [if not agree] with those who use playsand.
    again, i don't readily recommend it those that probably won't clean as often as i do or those with baby beardies.
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. mthorpe

    mthorpe Well-Known Member

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    clarinet, i hate it personally, and would never use it, but you know what your doing, and would be able to spot any potential problems, it shouldnt be used by new people, as they wouldnt be able to easily spot any problems early enough to get treatment... if you know what your doing (which you do) and are prepared to put in the extra effort to keep it clean (which you are) then it can be used... i still wouldnt use/reccomend it, but its your choice, and you know enough about beardies to be able to use it...
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. clarinet45

    clarinet45 Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the concern, i really respect your opinion. i have been looking into slate tile and where i can find it around here. When i put feng/Az in their adult tanks [yet to be made/ordered] i will probably go with tile and maybe a playbox to dig in. I would take the whole tank apart in a second if i saw any problems, including mold, mites, possible impaction, etc.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. crazyman1378

    crazyman1378 New Member

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    Right now Im using Rabbit pellits( im not sure on yalls view on it? it was recomended by my vet. for my beardie and iggy) but i am thinking of changing to the liner for both of them for it sounds alot easier to clean.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. clarinet45

    clarinet45 Well-Known Member

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    rabbit pellets are make out of alfalfa right? it's not dangerous cause they can digest it, but i'm sure they would mold if you mist in the tank or have a water bowl.
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. Freaky_pete

    Freaky_pete Well-Known Member

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    Eco earth breeds Bactira... that Cocnut husk stuff.. take it under a micro scope and u will be washing ur tank in no time
     
  12. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    If you use the yesterdays news rabbit litter it is recomended by one of the reptile room care sheets, so i would assume it was good. but i have never used it personally.

    i have always heard humidity has a very big affect on beardie health...they should have humidity levels between 10-30%. I would assume that naturally humidity that was any higher if experienced for long enough would lead to undue stress. Right? I have never used it personally but i would think it would take years and years to be able to tell. I wonder if CheriS or anyone has been keeping beardies long enough to know...

    guys? Im curious....
     
  13. crazyman1378

    crazyman1378 New Member

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    ive had him for over a year and half and the iggy for alittle over a year and both have seem to do well on it... just not easiy to clean at times
     
  14. Dragon723

    Dragon723 New Member

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    hey guys i would like to know wat is easier to clean playsnd or shelf liner?
    because the other day i went to a ddepart ment store and my friend from school works there and i had asked him if they had shelf liner and playsand and i look at both and thought to my self "how do you clean shelf liner?".i also thought to myself what would be better to use and them my friend asked why i was lookin for shelf liner and i told him about what i hear on this site and he told me that hes never ever heard of using shelf liner he has always used sand because he has had dragons before.i was in there for a good 15 mins and i finally decided to take............the play sand and not the shelf liner because i didnt know how to clean shelf liner( plus sand is CHEAP 50 pounds for $5!! WOW! lol)
    so i would like to know how to clean shelf liner so just incase i change my mind and go to the shelf liner.thank you. :)
    o0o and i have my dragon (Rocket) in sand and hes doin good he eats good and poops good but i have notice he has gotten lighter in coler eversince he shed his back, stomach, and back legs yesterday.i want to know if thats ok because hes allways look yellow (more dark than light) but today i have noticed that he is really light.......is that ok? :?:
     
  15. kephy

    kephy Moderator

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    IMO shelf liner (non-adhesive kind) is SO much easier, and more sanitary! You just take a wet paper towel and wipe it up, take the whole thing out once a month and throw it in the washer. So simple. I tried sand (briefly) when I got my first dragon, it got everywhere and was such a hassle to clean out completely once a month. Also it is just not very sanitary, no matter how much you scoop up you're going to have some urine that soaked in and got missed, it just breeds bacteria, so you HAVE to clean out the tank thoroughly at least once a month to disinfect. Many of us find it so much simpler to just spot clean shelf liner with wet paper towels each day (gets everything, leaves no residue like sand), and lift out the sheet once a month for a wash, it doesn't even weigh one pound.

    And believe it or not, shelf liner is even less expensive than sand. I have two sheets I switch back and forth, they have lasted me two years without replacement. That is $10 spent in two years. You will spend that much about every 2-4 months on sand (depending on the size of the enclosure).
     
  16. mklein

    mklein New Member

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    I examined the Duck non-adhesive shelf liner on the web and it appeared to be porous on top and not smooth...is this the case? If so it would seem harder to clean. What kind of surface does it have? How smooth/non-porous is it?
     
  17. alison1

    alison1 Member

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    486
    Well, personally l do not understand shelf liner either as l have always understood it to be kind of like wallpaper and would understand why you are asking this question! l don't know whether you have floor lino there (the shiny floor covering for like office floors and kitchens etc) as the underside is soft and spongy but also non poorous, it has to be otherwise us moms would be changing floor lino every other day because of children spilling drinks! l do a quick wipe over after removing poop and every morning l sponge down with hot soapy water but disinfect at the end of the week, every week! Some types of lino does look either very smooth and papery, looks porous or just perfect (thick, spongy and non porous!) so you do have to really look at every lino they have to offer and just think to yourself, would l like to sit on this day in day out! The other thing l like about lino is that it's quite thick, as long as you pick the right one!
     
  18. mthorpe

    mthorpe Well-Known Member

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    1,158
    The humidity bit is wrong... go to "humidity - setting the myths aside" on this forum, in the bearded dragon articles.....

    its best to keep it at about 45%
     
  19. kephy

    kephy Moderator

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    The specific type we buy is called "Smooth-Top Easy Liner"
    here it is right here
    http://www.duckproducts.com/products/detai...04&PID=1883

    Now some of the smooth-tops are a little more "bumpy" than others making it more difficult to scrub, but they are not porous and do not absorb at all, there are just some tiny grooves you have to scrub down into. Personally I just stick with the flatter ones, like this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    The "wallpaper-like" type of shelf-liner is the adhesive kind. The stuff we use is non-adhesive, it is more like rubber, like a bathmat you put in the bottom of your bath to keep from slipping. It is actually a lot like the lino you guys use, only less stiff so you can roll it or fold it like a piece of cloth.
     
  20. Dragon723

    Dragon723 New Member

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    o0o0o0 ok cause the liner i seen was buppy and i thought it wasnt the right one even thought it said non adhesive( i thought liner was supose to be flat :? )
     
  21. kephy

    kephy Moderator

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    6,445
    Nope, they make bumpy ones too, looks kind of like a weave pattern. That's what I use in my actual shelves. I guess those really bumpy ones maybe have even better grip on dishes and stuff? I don't know. :)
     
  22. ReptileCrazy

    ReptileCrazy Well-Known Member

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    1,957
    I just switched Hanny to the non-adhesive shelf liner, i got the smooth non-porous kind. its working really well so far. :)
     
  23. jo_edwards

    jo_edwards New Member

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    I'm so sorry to bring this up again but i didn't check this post over the weekend. And i just want to clear something up.

    Reptilecrazy - i wasn't saying that sand, especially calci-sand is ok to use, the person you mention who nearly lost their beardy because of calci-sand was me!

    I just think that this is the reason why some people don't listen to what we all say. They think it is just hearsay, which is why i tried to emphasise my point that i have personally experienced how awful this stuff is. If i can get that across maybe people will realise it's not just random rumours.

    The fact that it doesn't dissolve, and that someone has seen poo consisting mainly of sand doesn't mean impaction will occur. Though we know that it can cause impaction, some people (and not me - don't be mistaken) may argue that the fact that their poo is very sandy suggests that it doesn't become impacted because it is obviously passing through them.

    But in my opinion people concentrate too much on the risk of impaction and ignore all ther other adverse health problems. Like what happened to my female when she was on calci-sand, bacterial infections can be a major problem, even if you think you're being very clean/hygienic. And i have recently seen a post (not sure if it's here or not) about a leopard gecko with a poorly swollen eye, which may be due to sand or dust from the calci-sand getting in it. This has happened to me also with one of my adult beardies, but with washed playsand, which i used after getting rid of my calci-sand, and when my beardies were much older.

    I'm just trying to figure out why some people don't listen to all this advice. If it was up to me the manufacturers of calci-sand should be tried in court for animal cruelty, as well as any shop that not only stocks it but tries to force or trick unassuming customers into buying the overpriced bag of reptile-killer by pretending it's good for our pets.
     
  24. alison1

    alison1 Member

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    486
    l am one of the people who have seen my beardy poop sand and l didn't mean that l didn't think that he wouldn't get impacted l just meant l went into mad panic at the amount that he must have eating meaning we were lucky enough it was (although a hell of alot) still a small enough amount for him not to become impacted! As soon as l found out that this is what pretty much all partical substrate does to your beardy mine came straight off it but l think l changed a few things too quickly and they seemed really miserable so l put the sand back in so l could do things a little slower for them and after only 1 day it was back out and l've never looked back, l realised how dirty and messy it was, not only the risks of impaction but omg it was a nightmare, l had sand in the water bowls continuously all over the greens, how l didn't notice this before l don't know! l agree calci-sand should be banned but l also think that people have the right to make their own decision in their own time after been given all the adequate information and hope the decision is made before any animal suffers and without being bullied! But anyway l have nothing more to say now as fantastic information has been given, l think the arguement has gone a bit far but we all know it is a touchy subject and we just need to back off and let people (hopefully from the info given) make their own decision! All we can do is try to help by given people information not scaring them by shoving it down their throat!

    Don't worry.......be happy!!! :)
     

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