:?: Celestrial (dark baby female) and Silverspike (light baby male) have been cage mates for a while now but untill recently have been fine together. The other day i discovered that Silverspike has been chewing on Celestrial's tail and today it was been chewed off. I have drastically increased food (20 crickets a day) to keep my lil girl's tail from looking like food but it didn't work. Now I'm concerned with should i keep her with him or take him to a new cage and will her tail grow back? I'm also concerned with her size. They are both the same age but he's twice as big as she is. Is that okay?
you need to separate them right away. otherwise, you will find her losing limbs. the tail nip will not grow back [and neither will nipped toes or limbs]. you should dip tje tail in some betadine and cover it with a bandaid if it is bleeding. once they are separated, she should be able to eat more and grow. but right now, your male is hogging what little food there is and she can't get enough food to thrive. the tail nipping is a sign that you aren't feeding enough. you need to be feeding babies as many crix as they will eat in 10 minutes at least 3x per day. 20 a day is definitely not enough for 2 growing babies. if that is a "drastic increase," then you definitely haven't been feeding enough. Caspi eats 4-5 dozen crix a day all by himself at 2 months old. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being hard. You just need to know their food and housing needs, or you will end up losing both of them. read the care sheets on this site and ask more questions...there is a lot of good info here and great people who can help.
oooh someone (petsmart) said 6 only a day each when i got them sheesh this is what i get for listening to them thanx though they will be seperated before morning
oooh, petsmart. most likely everything they told you was wrong. just a quick rundown of beardie 101...things you need to know right away. first: substrate. I hope you aren't using sand as a substrate. if they sold you calci-sand, repti-sand, or lizard litter...throw it out right away. beardies eat the sand and it causes intestinal impaction and sometimes death. lizard litter has walnut shells which carry molds which can be toxic to your beardie and the shells are sharp. the best substrate for babies is either paper towels or a non-adhesive shelf liner. I prefer the shelf liner because the crickets can't hide beneath it and it is easy to clean and replace. you can use the lizard carpet, but make sure that you trim any frayed edges which your beardie can eat and become impacted. second thing...when you feed crickets, make sure they are no larger than the space between your beardie's eyes. for babies, this generally means SMALL, 1-2 week old crickets. anything larger will cause impaction or temporary paralysis in the legs [or twitching]. third...you should be offering "beardie salads" every day...make sure you dice the veggies and grerens up very small for the babies. they might not eat them right away, but you should offer them anyway. there is a great chart of the appropriate veggies and how often you can feed them at www.beautifuldragons.com -- click on the "nutritional info" link, and bookmark that site. fourth...your beardies are going to need to have fecal exams done for parasites, especially buying them at petsmart [they probably got them from one of the not-so-reputable breeders]. you can find a good herp vet in your area by checking www.arav.org, but it sounds like you have lots of herps already, so you may have a good vet. don't wait too long to get the fecals done -- you should always do them whenever you get a new pet. fifth...keeping them hydrated. babies aren't too bright when it comes to recognizing water. you should have a shallow dish that is wide enough for them to get all the way into, but not too deep that they would have to swim. they might not drink from it, but it should be there. you can mist them once or twice a day until they start to drink. the point is not to make a humid environment, but to make sure they stay hydrated. and beardie baths are a very important way to keep them hydrated. you can fill a plastic tub with warm water [not too hot, but not cool], no deeper than shoulder height. place the little guy in there and let him splash around for 10-15 minutes. beardies do not absorb water through their skin, but they do through the vent. this will also encourage them to poo. if your beardie goes poo in the bath, you will need to take him out right away so he doesn't accidentally drink the water [this is to prevent any "direct life cycle" parasite problems, like coccidia.] okay...that's enough info for now. there is a lot more you will need to learn, so poke around all the good info on this site and ask a lot of questions.
aargh! two more things: supplements and heating your babies need lots of calcium...you should dust your crix with calcium w/ D3 and no phosphorus once a day. Rep-Cal is highly recommended (this is not repti-cal or repto-Cal, or many of the other similarly named products) rep-cal also makes a multivitamin supplement called Herptivite, and you will need to use this 4-5 times per week. you can dust the salads or mix it with the calcium on the crix. make sure you have a good UVB bulb and your beardie is getting 12-14 hours of light for the summer. you can go down to 9-11 hours in the winter. you should have a warm side (90-95) and a cool side (80-85) to the tank. the basking site should be around 105 for a baby. some babies like it hotter, but don't go over 115 for basking. you will need a digital thermometer (accu-rite is a good one and you can find it at wal-mart or radio shack for around $10-$15). those stick on zoo-med therms are grossly inaccurate (off by as much as 20 degrees). okay...enough for now, I promise. good luck!
Another thing I bet Petsmart told you is that it's ok to house two beardies together. It is not in their best interest. They are not naturally social animals like many people assume, they are territorial. The arm waving and head bobbing and "snuggling" is all part of a system of establishing dominance and territory. When in the wild, these lizards do not choose to spend time together. If the dragons are both male, they will eventually fight and hurt each other. If they are male and female they will mate, and there are many reasons to be concerned about this. If they are siblings (and if you bought them at the same time from the same store, they probably are) allowing them to mate is inbreeding, and inbreeding in the bearded dragon gene pool is out of hand as it is. Babies have been born with deformities after only one generation of inbreeding, it is that bad! Even if the dragons aren't related at all, the when kept together since babies, the male will start trying to mate with the female long before she is physically ready. That can not only effect the health of the eggs, but will steal the energy and calcium the female still needs for herself to grow. Even after she lays the eggs, he will breed with her again and again, and she won't get a break inbetween mating and laying eggs to regain her energy. Allowing a female to be overbred like that can shorten her lifespan by a few years at least. I won't even get into how much time and money it would cost to raise all those hatchlings properly. Overall, it is just bad practice housing a male and female together full time. In the interest of each beardies well-being, seperate housing is in order, multiple females being the only occasional exception. Of course pet stores don't always tell you this, because then you might only buy one beardie instead of two. It's really a shame. I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way that what you've been told was wrong. This is something we see all the time. It's amazing to me that there are so few enforced laws about breeding, selling, and trading reptiles, or truthfully advertised products for reptiles and small animals. Companies and pet stores get away with murder all the time, literally. Here are a few websites that may help you learn some better information about beardie care. http://www.kakadudragons.com/caresheet/car...et.php#multiple http://www.beardiedragon.com/pages/Care/BD_Care_QA2.html Good luck.
yes they have heating and lighting. yes they have salads Silverspikes fav. thing to pick at are strawberries and the lil bit of spinach i put in there along with the collard greens, butternut squash and green beans. Celestrial wont eat if u watch her so i'm not sure of her fav.s. I take Silverspike out most of the time when i put crickets in so the hog will let her eat her fill first and if he needs more so be it.(she usually eats only like 3 then stops) they have tiny crickets which i dust with supplements every three days just so they are not over powered by the nutrients in everything. their housing is half calcium sand (which has gone into a shifter once a week to keep everything big out) and half carpet. the lighting is 12/12 2a.m to 2 p.m in dark and 2 p.m to 2 a.m is light and i check up on them every other hour when i'm actually home. The heaters are on all round (under the sand side as not to burn their feet) i have spent $1000+ on my lizards which is alot for a 17 year old. they have a water bowl that gets changed with the food everyday as they both seem to like sitting in it and looking mighty lol. They get sprayed once a week to keep their skin easily shedable. Celestrial is 85% on the ground as Silverspike spends his day in the plastic plants basking away or glaring at my iguana i usually shield all my lizards from looking at one another but i like for them to know they got other "family" too. it's funny watching them all. my dog doesn't care for them he's 14 years old and wouldn't hurt a cat even if his life depended on it and so my dragons raced over him and he jumped squeaked and ran under a table shivering awww poor baby. No one but my iguana shows dominance she puffs up and dares me to come at her (10 minute fight to get her out of the cage lol). The drag.s will just look at me from the side and watch me. the gecko and anole don't care. the anole actually stays in the iguana's cage. i tried to seperate them once but the anole started to get deathly ill so i but him back in with my iguana and he got better. I pretty much think i have everything down for them just the housing is wrong. I didn't trust petsmark fully since the people that work there are the people that i go to school with! O.O I just never read about the male eating the female's tail and if it grows back. but now i know and i have a cage to change....errr and another light to buy oh boy..... :?
Well I see a few things that can be corrected... Cut out the spinach. It binds the calcium which they need, especially as babies. What kind of suppliments? Calcium? Multivitamins? Both? Calcium should be dusted on their crickets daily until they are adults, then cut back to about 3 times a week. Multivitamins should be used about 3 times a week, then cut back to about once a week for adult. Don't worry, they won't be overpowered. Half calcium sand I guess is better than all calcium sand, but ANY calcium sand is bad. It is not digestable and safe as it is advertised. Regular washed and sifted playdand from Home Depot is safer, but babies shouldn't really have any sand at all. Why are the lights set up like that? Beardies are daytime creatures, and very sensitive to that sort of thing. I'm not sure it's a good idea to make them be awake at night. Sounds like you really do love your pets, you just need the right information to work with. That's what this forum is here for! 8) Wow, I hope that works out for you. :? Generally it is a very bad idea to house different species of reptile together. Not only can they spread parasites and bacteria to each other that can be ok for one but dangerous to the other species, but reptiles are unpredictable and one day you may find a happy iguana and a missing anole. :shock:
i tried to seperate them but i don't want the anole to die so if a rattle snake can befriend a mouse then i guess an iguana can befriend an anole lol (saw it on animal planet lol)
sounds like you've got quite a bit of experience with reptiles in general with all those creatures to care for. the only thing I would worry about is the calci-sand. I can't emphasize enough that this stuff is really bad for beardies. other reptiles may be okay with it, but beardies will eat it and get impacted. they will sense it is calcium and think it is good for them, but it clumps and the clumps will get stuck in their intestines. kephy has posted a lot on this subject lately and there is quite a bit of debate about whether to use sand at all for beardies, but everyone agrees that calci-sand is bad. also, your baby beardies are going to need calcium on their crix once a day until they are quite a bit bigger (at 4 months you can go down to every other day). the most common health problem with beardies is calcium deficiency, and it is really sad that so many beardies die of this because it is so easily prevented with making sure they get enough calcium and D3. with growing babies, its going to be hard to give them too much calcium. check out the "nutritional information" link at www.beautifuldragons.com -- there is a great chart on which types of fruits, veggies and other foods are good for beardies. there are some things they can't eat that other reptiles can. spinach is one example. good luck and I hope the girl hasn't lost too much tail and she starts thriving once she is away from the big guy.
half her tail is gone. i noticed to late that silverspike wasn't playing with her. thats a mistake that wont ever happen again. and i wont use the sand anymore once i get more money coming my way to give them bigger room and bigger cages cause then...that'd be alot of sand to use. but for not all my liz. will have half sand half carpet for they seemed relaxed in it and i don't want to change what they are used to till i have something bigger 4 them to be in weeee more money to spend 8)
buy some non-adhesive shelf liner (like Duck) at wal-mart for a buck or so. don't wait to get them off the calci-sand.
Shelf liner is awesome stuff. You get the non-adhesive kind, it sticks to the floor like a bathmat. It's flat and easy to spot clean with a wet paper towel. Then you take it out once or twice a month, put a fresh one in, and wash the old one in the washing machine. Costs about $5, you only buy it once or twice and it lasts. I use it for my beardies and my gecko. Honestly, they have all been on particle substrates like sand and dirt at some point, and they showed absolutely no change in behavior, health, or happiness when put on shelf liner. In fact they are all thriving. I have the peace of mind knowing that I will never worry about impaction, bacteria, or fungus problems that are known to accompany so many particle substrates. pic 1 pic 2 pic 3
I just switched to shelf liner 2 weeks ago. I had mine on "habi-chips" which I was told was fine. Luckily, I didn't use it long enough to have impaction problems with my baby. there was no behavior change, no problem with it not being "comfortable" and it is soooo much easier -- the crix can't burrow or hide and the poop is easy to clean. I recommend a solid one -- if you are worried about comfort, you can get the thicker kind. but seriously, beardies don't spend so much time on the ground -- they hang out in their basking site practically all day long. remember, you have babies...they take some special care. infant mortality is pretty high and most of it is due to improper husbandry. I would rather have my dragon live 10 years on shelf liner than 2 years on "comfy" sand. if you provide your babies with adequate basking sites, proper lighting [and I have to agree with kephy on this point...they should get up with the sun and go to bed with it too] and quality food, they will be happy AND healthy.
yeah i know about the sun thing but they live in the basement and don't see the sun at all so i placed them on the times i'm up. the basement gets really cold which is why the heater is on all round. I'll look at the self liner just to make u guys happy *sighs* i just hope they aren't the kind that don't like to slide Celestrial likes it on the ground so i dunno......but it's late here *sighs*sure sure okay really tired now school starts in a week i'm screwed with my sleeping, nite yall carry this convo on later
sounds like you are going to have to change your own day/night habits in the next week, so this is a good time to change your beardie's day/night habits. and do it GRADUALLY. beardies have what is called a "third eye" -- it is a bump on the back of their heads and it acts like their cicadian clock -- they KNOW when the sun is going to rise and set [lights coming on and off]. drastically changing the times the lights come on/off will stress them out. sure, if they are in the basement and they never see the sun, you can try to get away with this weird lighting routine...but as the saying goes, "its not nice to fool mother nature." [from an old butter commercial that you are probably too young to remember] and, you are going to want to take your beardies out for some natural sunshine about 1/2 hour every week -- its going to be weird for them that the sun is up in the "middle of the night." they are very very smart animals...smarter than you know. I find that my beardie keeps me on a better waking/sleeping schedule. as a law student, I usually put in 18 hours SOLID studying a day. but getting up at 6 with my beardie and sharing our morning routine has been very "balancing" and he doesn't mind if I'm typing away on my computer after he goes to sleep at 9 (which will change to getting up at 7a, and lights out at 8p in a couple of months or so). as I've said before, you have babies and they need special care. they are an ENORMOUS amount of work and you need to be willing to do what they need if you want to see them survive to adulthood. with your being in high school, it may have been a better choice to save your $140 and buy a single adult beardie. they can go all day with salads and crix only once or twice a week. MUCH easier. [and adults are okay on washed/sifted playsand, where babies ARE NOT]. I wish you and your little beardies luck.
Don't do it just to make us happy do it for the health and safety of your beardies! Isn't that what you want? No, shelf liner does not slip, and trust me when I say comfort is not an issue. Do you think stankind on rocks and branches all day is comfortable. Again, look at their feet, do those look like they any more made for wading through sand than they do for walking on shelf liner? Those lizards are built for standing on rocks and branches all day. Your idea of comfort and a beardie's idea of comfort are very different. I'm with kipod about getting your beardies on a normal daytime schedule before you go back to school, also.
