I gave a babyrat to my female bp yesterday. she was fed in a paperbag and made a quick kill, but that was it. a hour later the dead rat was still there. my girl lives in a big blanket box with hides, water and aspen bedding. the set up is my unused diningroom, so its quiet in there. should i go back to two lab mice?
Im guessing that it was probabl a little bit to big like you were saying, otherwise I think it would of scarfed it down. Probably 2 mice would be better for now untill a little bigger, btw how old is she? and how big?
Hey Conny...depending on the size of the rat (prey items should be no more than 150% of the snakes width at it's largest part) it could have possibly been too big...but it's also likely that your BP didn't recognize a rat as a food item. Making the switch it tough (I'm not even attempting Sable yet, and she's a great eater, approx 24" and 525 grams!), and can take alot of time & persistance. You feed 2 mice a week? My girl is going through about 3 adult mice 2x a week at the moment, maybe stepping yours up on mice before attempting rats will work better? Also, what are your temps & humidity levels reading at? ~Michelle
i've got the jumbo mice for her. cold side is 80-82 other side hot spot is 93. humidity is about 65% i had her since 12th of march. i will go first thing saturday and get some pure white mice, which i know she likes. does anybody have experience with african soft furred rats/natal rats for bp's. i heard they are supposed to go crazy for them. i could get my hands on a breeder trio for 10$ but i wanted to know what you all think before i drive 30miles to pickthem up.
Shortygirl, I'd say if your feeding 3 mice you really need to move to rats. Also if your having to feed 3 times a week that your not feed enouth and need to move up to larger food. If you think, a hopper rat is proberly as small if not smaller than 3 adult mice. I think really the minet there big enouth to feed rats you should, i.e when they can take a rat pup, as one day they will have to them, and it's easier to when they are young. I would strongly recomend moving up to rats. If your snake will not take them try rubbing a mouse on them. A food item should be about as thick as the snakes girth, for a royal python, and no biger then 1.5 times bigger. If your feed 2 adult mice a baby rat is proberly to small, and that is why he's not recognising it as a pery item, by baby do you meen a rat pup? I think really the minet there big enouth to feed rats you should, i.e when they can take a rat pup, as one day they will have to them, and it's easier to when they are young. I would strongly recomend moving up to rats. If your snake will not take them try rubbing a mouse on them. A food item should be about as thick as the snakes girth, for a royal python, and no biger then 1.5 times bigger. 80-82 is way to hot for your cold side, and your hot spot shouldnt be that high either. They should have a cool of about 70 - 75. and there hot spot is arguable. Some people say be tween 80-85 some say a bit more than that personaly I aim to keep it about 88.
Also you say made a kill does that meen you feeding live, because if you are you need to stop immidiatly. 95% of the time you do not need to be feeding live you just need to persue with feeding F/T. I have seen some horrific pictures of royals thats have been fed live mice/rats. That would make you feel physically sick, and/or cry.
i have seen the pic of a bp that was left alone with a mouse.the rat was exactlly as big around as my snake. maybe he didnt like the color or sex. the bp was live fed by the breeder since birth. but right now i am trying to switch from live mice to f/t rats. out of price and safety reasons. i will get some white mice and rats from my dealer, i'll stun them and wave them around with my hemostat. what would you think would be better getting them used to f/t mice first and go up to a rat or to feed a live appropiate sized rat and then go for f/t? i would really appreciate your input. anyways my bp boy ate a stunned mouse this morning, isnt that a step forward? he was just done shedding and hadnt ate in almost two weeks. rat
Heh two weeks is nothing. Some of them just go off there food for no reason for ages, but most of the time it's just some fault of the owner, if he was in or coming up to shed is proberly why he diddnt eat for 2 weeks. But like I said you really need to bring your temps down. This is a link that someone else put on another post but sounds like a good way. http://www.proexotics.com/FAQ2.html But i personaly would try stunned, pre-killed, F/T, in that order. Some royals may like it to wiggle a bit mine does , but some will just be scared by it. Good luck, and no more live!
Hey Frogger...I've never been sucessful with frozen/thawed. I always supervise my feedings though and never leave her unattended or the mouse in there for more than 15 minutes, not taken. 'Round by me, the only thing I can get is mice or adult rats...I had tried a rat...who is now named Ralph & living in a spare 10 gallon LOL. Next show I'm at, I'll try & grab some pups, but that's not until the end of April; so for now, mice will do her well enough. Thanks for the input though! ~Michelle
Nope, mail order some F/T if you have to. A adult mice could bite even with you there watching, you have to remeber a mice has one defence mecagnism, its teath. If its in danger, it will bite. One bite could kill your snake easily. It's completely not worth it. The ONLY time i would consider F/T is if the snake has'nt ate for 6-8 mounths and has about 3 weeks to live. I would try everything befor feeding live. Just completely not worth it. What would you prefer, a snake that diddnt eat for 3 mounths and then took a F/T or a snake that ate great for 3 mounths got bit by a mouse/rat and died? There's loads of tricks you can try. Braining, scenting, leaving the F/T in front of there hide. Even if your there a mouse could still easyily kill you snake.
tried braining a fresh killed and a f/t didnt work. scenting didnt either i had the rat live with the mice on used mice bedding.they got along great and the mice all hovered around the rat(they still sit and sleep where the rat was) left a f/t in the cage on a piece of cardbord.had them both bagged with f/t and prekilled my boy took to prekilled, my girl striked at me and looked funny. i will not starve my babies though. i will try to ease them of live and to f/t. already had sucsess with my ksb and corny.
OK, so you don't think its ok for you snakes not to eat for a couple of weeks, which is perfectly fine. But you have a problem with putting it in grave danger every time you feed them? I'm not sujesting you stave them, but it takes a good 8 mounths to starve a royal pythong. Some royals will go as much as a year without showing sighns of being ill. Try what that link said, and try pre-killed. The thing is there never going to take a pre killed or F/T if they know if they wait a few more hours or days they will get a live. Its like saying to a human. OK I'll offer you something you don't want to try cause it doesnt look good, but if you don't want it in half an hour I'll give you this yummy pie. It's not starving until your royal hasnt ate for a good few mounths.
Hi Connie, Well... I'm not going to tell you what to do. But, I will tell you what I do and you can try and adapt it to your situation (or not). Remember what I said in the other post about ball pythons being imprinted feeders? That's what makes some of them hard to switch from mice to rats and live to F/T. All of mine are on rats and most are on F/T rats. I do have a few (maybe 3 out of 100) that will only take live rats... and that's OK!! I monitor the feedings. In over 20 years dealing with snakes, I’ve never had a problem. I start my hatchlings on live rat pinkies or pups (depending on the hatchlings size) and have them eating F/T by the 4th or 5th feeding. I find that it makes it easier for the people who buy my animals. Also, there’s usually less of a switching issue later. Now that being said, I also feed them in their enclosures... where they feel safe. I use Dr. Ivan Pavlov's theory on conditioned reflex's to train them to eat F/T. (Yes... I said train them. Ball pythons are ambush predators that need to hunter. They are NOT scavengers.) Anyway, my hatchlings have their hides, which they use. I start by introducing the live rat pinkie or pup (with tongs) through the door of the hide and allow it to enter. I repeat this at the second feeding. By the third feeding the hatchling’s head is usually sitting at the hide doorway, in ambush mode. Again with tongs, I take the live rat pup and move it in front of the doorway… then quickly away to the side and then slowly back to the doorway. I usually get a strike at that time. If not, I do this a couple more times. If still no strike I put the rat pup the hide. Once I get a strong strike at the doorway… I know it’s time to try a F/T rat pup. The feed response needs to be strong and quick. By the time my animals are 300 grams they are eating weanlings to small rats. Here’s a picture of my hatchlings (w/hide) set-up I hope this helps
first at all frogger , i dont not appreciate your tone. I rather feed supervised a live rodent than play god and tell my animals what they should eat. thats like locking up a vegetarian and serving them nothing but meat everyday. those snakes were traumadized enough , by being packed up in little boxes at the show and looked at. than a completley new set up. As i set both of the breeders fed the bp's live. you are acting like its you war or the highway. Thank you so much all star, my problem with my girl is that she still likes to strike at me every now and then. somebody told me i should feed in a different box. so should i hold of handling and train her in her set up to f/t feed? also what bedding to you use? i have aspen right now.i am concerend they could swallow that stuff. and one last thing how often does it happen that one of your bp's refuses a certain color or sex of rodent?
Frogger, while your preferance is appreciated, and your tips helpful...please do not take it upon yourself to villify anyone's methods. Feeding live has it's dangers, yes...we who do are well aware of them and are there to take appropriete action in the case any assistance is needed. A BP is well-known for going on hunger strikes and being one of the more difficult snakes to feed regularly...I found a method my girl prefers and will stick to it. She won't even touch a stunned mouse, let alone a dead one. AllStar, your advice is appreciated! I have a quick question...I also feed Sable in her enclosure (much preferable than trying to move a bellyfull snake who's still in hunt mode...yikes!!). I DO have a rat...supposedly a "small rat" - things HUGE, names Ralph (til it can be changed to "dinner"!). Sable's 525 grams and a shade over 2 feet long. What size can she take? I do not have access to rat pups (which would be about the size of the mice she's taking now), can she handle a full grown rat? I'd stun HIM first, to be sure, but I'd hate to bop the silly critter if she isn't large enough to take him. I can weight him if you'd like to give you an idea...but just doing a visual side by side comparision...he looks like Godzilla Rat! Thanks!! ~Michelle
A common misconception in the BP world. Could you imagine what it would be like to feed 200 BP's in a different encloseure? It's more about routine and habits. My snakes are kept in tubs and a rack system. They know that if their tub is pulled out and the lid raised... there's food coming. If the tub is pulled out and the lid removed... (RUN AND HIDE) he's comin in! LOL So your approach to feeding and taking out for handling should be different. I would say that handling her just adds to the stress. So let her focus on the changes you are making. Remember, just like with kids, it is all about routine and consistancy. My hatchlings are on paper towels and adults on newspaper. However, I have used aspen in the past. Ingestion is not really that big of a problem. If you've ever seen a snake in the wild eat... they get a lot more in them than a little aspen. They're system can handle it. Just make sure the F/T rat is dry. With regard to color, it's very rare with captive bred BP's and more common with older imported BP's. Brown and blk seem to be the most prefered color for older imported BP's. As for gender... I really haven't heard a lot of discussion on that one. Keep us posted on your progress. Larry Walker
how about you buy Ralph a girlfriend and feed the offspring? i just came home from the lps and will try a stunned white mouse tonight. i already fed my corny and ksb . ksb was in shed but corny gobbeled down three fuzzies(dead) they are such pigs!! whats bigger the rats "waistline" or Sables?my girl could munch a weanling rat(heidi28-9in and 380g)
Hi Michelle, LOL... one persons small is another persons large! My rule of thumb is the snakes girth or a little larger. But it doe's depend on your snake. Some snakes at that size will take a larger prey item than another snake. It depends on their comfort level. Each snake is a little different. It's really a trial and error process some times. Good luck
I'm a vegitarian and i would much rather be locked in with meat rather than a live animal that could kill me, supervised or not. Its nothing like that at all. It's more like offering a meat eater some bacon, rather than locking them in a cage with a bull, but yes i am sorry if my tome was rude. It's just I don't want to see someone go through the greif of loosing an animal, and the animal go though the pain. I really am sorry. However I think it's more playing god putting a live mouse in a un-escapeble tank for both the snake and mouse, this means one of them is going to come of dead or ill. But thats just my opinion. The feeding in a seperate container could very well work. I would deffinatly try it, however with some snakes but not all it may stress the snake more. Also try not to touch the food as this will get your smell on the food and then next time you put you hand in your snake thinks "hmmm food" The other thing you might want to try if you havent already, is to rub the live mouse on a rat, this means that the rat will have the smell of what the snake is used to. Again sorry if i seemed rude, I was just concerned.
