thefrogger, Well... I don't know if a bull is the correct analogy for a mouse, maybe more like a live chicken. LOL Even though I wouldn't lock you in a room with one, If I did... I would be there to save you!! LOL Now really... we are talking about a capable predator here. It is fully capable of dealing with it's pray. They sometimes even kill the prey item without eating. Yes, F/T or pre-killed is preferred. But feeding live is not wrong. It just needs to be done properly and responsibly. In fact, most people with large collections prefer to feed live. It's just easier with large collections. No problems. As for playing God... you already made that choice when you decided to keep a wild animal as a pet and a again when you killed the mouse to feed your pet. Just, please don't be a judgemental God! LOL
GREAT NEWS !!!I just feed her a live mouse and then right when she swallowed down the last bite i gave her a f/t with the hemostat. no probs. i had removed the aspen and replaced with newspaper. i will keep doing that for a few times and attemped a full switch. maybe it was the color. frogger i did what you said too, had the lab mouse in with my old stock and grabbed the mouse by the tail. Do you think i should scent the f/t with used litter(defrosting on it?) Also i will be picking up a trio of african rats and breed them, they are barely bigger than mice and supposibly unresistable for picky bp's. i will update you all as soon as i feed the first one
AllStar, I agree with you. I've watched, and videoed (SP??), Sable during the "hunt" process...there's nothing incapable about her. Holding her head close to her body, tensing, waiting for the right moment to strike...it's like watching a master musician or artist at work. There's nothing "shy" about these guys...remember, they are BORN to hunt, it's natural and has been perfected over countless hundreds of generations. I don't want to mess with that...hence feeding live prey. I've even watched her re-adjust herself so that the mouses head is in a postition where it cannot bite, though it may try! Snake skin is extremely resiliant...thier only weak point (to my untrained eyes anyway) is their head & eyes...which are generally quite firmly lodged into the prey item with such precision that the prey cannot get anywhere near their weakest parts. As to the snake thinking you are a prey item...snakes, for all thier small heads, are not dumb. They may stretch, but hardly that much to consider a human food (unless you're talking fully grown anaconda/retic and a small...SMALL...child! And even then, highly unlikely). Most snakes strike due to feeling threatened by our presence, or due to improper handeling. Those who have been tagged (thankfully, not myself!) have almost always admitted it to be THEIR fault...not the snakes. How can you blame something for acting on pure, animal instinct...particularly when, for all the snake knows, we could be a predator! I've attempted to feed Sable in a seperate container...one of the few times she's struck at me. You don't mess with a snake bellyful and in hunt mode. I feed in her enclosure, for my safety and her comfort. Frogger, I'm sure you didn't mean to sound rude (it's rather difficult to judge tone over the 'net, for sure), but people are extremely passionate about thier animals. Sometimes it's hard to judge passion, from another emotion. Your viewpoints are appreciated, and should carry with them a weight of caution...not everyone is capable of, nor should be feeding live. F/T is the prefered method, for sure, particularly with one who is inexperianced or new to "our world". Some snakes never adjust to it though, and feeding live (or stunned) prey is sometimes the only option. It's the lesser evil, in my mind, than watching a perfectly healthy animal starve to death because of one's opinion. ~Michelle
I'm not saying that there not capable predators, but it's still true that they can bite and kill your snake, and even if they didd'nt kill your snake they would certainly damage it. As where a chicken could certainly not harm a human. Maybe a bull was a bit of an exaduration. Maybe a ram, the human stands a better chance but is it worth the risk? Yes royals are perfectly good predators, but that doesnt meen there perfect, if they miss and just clip the mouse, or get it a bit to far down the mouse proberly will bite. I'm not saying feeding live is out of the question. I just think that people rush into it way to quick. Theres loads of things you can try. Snakes may not think your food, but they may very well consider you hand food. They have very poor vision, if they see somehting like a hand move and it smells of food, they mite go for it. Yes you could have a snake that is trying to defend its self but thats very uncommon in royals. I was not talking about starving your snakes to death. I was talking about maybe a couple of weeks wher eyou only offer F/T or pre-killed. I was just stating that they can go that long, so you didd'nt need to worry. But I'm not very good at wording things, so that was proberly my fault. But my opinion is even with a very expeirence keeper. They are unlikly to be able to stop a mouse bite before it happens, becuase I meen i could proberly bite someone befor they could stop me, and thats not my only deffence. So if it was my only defence and it was gonna take a little time for someone to open a cage and such, then I think it's unsafe. As for the playing god thing, I completely agree, but why would a god take unessercery risks. Conny thats great well done. Again sorry to anyone who felt like I was being rude.
I can see both point of views. Today I was at the vet and he showed me pics of snakes that had been bitten by rats/mice/rodents pretty much anything they eat and when I saw those pics I immediatly thought twice about feeding my snake live prey. They were pics of insides ripped apart where the snakes were still living but where they had to be put to sleep. Some had been bit 30-40 times along the body and tail, some on the head where eyes have been bitten off. The main thing is that snakes aren't able to defend themselve's when they are being bitten by a rodent in a captive enviorment all they can do is curl up and take the beating they are going to come back and attack. They may hiss but they will let the rodent beat on them untill they are injured severly. Though i doubt people that do feed live prey, or hope that they will not leave there reptile un-atended while feeding. So that is what makes me think f/t is a much better solution to feeding. However some reptiles just will not make the switch and that is understandable, they are born to kill and will not eat anything that they have contricted and killed. That is whats tough, there is alot of the times a way to switch but it is a long and titius task, and some are not willing to withstand that this annoying project.
Yeh but as stated in the link i posted earlyer on in the thred, and by Alstar, about 95% of royals will eat pre kill or F/T. I would personaly much rather have a long tidius task than to have a snake be bit. I do think that every owner, should put the time into doing this large collection or not. I look up to people like you allstar who have alot of royals and feed all that will take F/T, and I understand that it can be a hard transaction.
Absolutely... there are tons of those pics around. But what the pic doesn't tell you was the health of the animal prior to the incident or how long the prey item was left in the snakes enclosure (overnight?). This is why you NEED to supervise the process. Very true... and you need to provide the best care within the constaints you're given. Thank You... thawing a couple hundred rats a week IS a lot harder than feeding live. But I do it for my animals. However, sometimes we're just not in charge of these things. All we can do is reduce the risks as much as we can. Here's a perfect example. I have this little girl that I got a few years ago. She cost me (*choke * choke *) $20,000.000. As you can see by the pic below, she is flawless. But, she will only eat small live rats... not F/T small rats... not Med. live rats... not Med. F/T rats... not live mice... get the picture... ONLY live small rats. I tried to switch her. Bob Clark tried to switch her. NOT happening. :x Now you have to know that I do not want her injured or scared up in anyway. So, we do it her way and keep a close eye on her. She's never had a problem. She's also one of the sweetest animals I've ever had.
She is a stunner. I love snakes with stripes. I'm gonna by a snery stripe corn, as i can't afford a royal. I think anery stipres are just as pretty any way. Do you breed? if so how many eggs do you get a year, cause it seems like youd have alot.
frogger, how much do royals cost in the UK? Iknow over here they start out 25$ for 07 normal hatchlings. I paid 30$ for my girl and 55$ for the boy. Good luck with your corny, got one myself .
Yeh, I have a few corns, but i want to go for a striped anery, as there one of my favorits. Adult royas tend to go for around £120 - £175. Young ones the price is never really the same anywhere so it's hard to tell. I meen royals are only just starting to become very populer over here, so there's less of them around. I havent seen any 07s around yet. But 06s are going for about £90 at the moment. So they are alot more expensive. When you think the price of your royals is the same as our normal 07 corns, and thats cheep even then. I payed £100 for my sub-adult male, and thats proberly about average. Thats was quite a while ago though, so it could have gone down now.
Yes, but I only breed what I need for my own projects and for people who have expressed an interest. If I produce too many, I sell the extras. I'm more focused on producing quality animals, not quanity. This year I'll probably get around 20 clutches. A lot of my females aren't even being used this year. But we're still looking at producing spiders, bees, stripes, albinos, blond pastels, and mojaves this year.
awww thats really cool, thats the sort of thing i would prefer to do. I meen 20 clutchs is still quite alot of snakes you must have your hands full.
Actually, I think breeding season is the easiest time of the year. Most of the animals go off feed... defecate less... which means less cages to clean. You just have to rotate the males from cage to cage and be able to deal with the waiting. Waiting for follicle development... waiting for ovulations... waiting for eggs... waiting for the eggs to hatch... sure can test your patience. LOL
LOL.. That's my busy season!! Fortunately, I have two good helpers (my sons). They clean and water... I feed, build racks, sell the extras, and do the shipping.
I'm gonna breed corns next year, and maybe royals if i can find a female, and maybe leos, depending on a few things. But I'll proberly start out with just one of them.
