Hey there, As some of you know ( ) I've been wanting to get into the lizard world for a while now. Though before I go buying anything, I was wondering where the best place to order insects (mainly crickets) is. EDIT: one thing that I was wondering. How do crickets (and other insects) do when being shipped in sub-freezing temps? It's usually around 10 degrees here (sometimes colder), and I'm finding that that is too cold to order a reptile in. How about crickets? :/ btw, how long do these guys live (crickets)? Are they easy to maintain? The last thing... for one single bearded dragon, how many crickets would I need (starting with a hatchling dragon) per week? Same for a leopard gecko... I'm not sure what quantity I'd need to be buying. :/ I'd like to get both a beardie and leo (first comes a crested though, if I can find them ^_^), but honestly have no idea what quantity each would eat weekly. Thanks for the help, as always.
First, I'll say a couple of things regarding feeder insects for reptiles =) This is something I've done pretty extensive research on and have lots of experience with, so I'll give you the pros and cons of all and you can choose from there: Crickets: Great feeder insect and pretty much the universal feeder. Beardies, leos, and cresties all enjoy them. But they chirp, smell in quanitities if not kept very clean, and they are escape artists with their jumping ability. I personally only buy a handful of these guys every month to add some variety in my herps diet...I choose less annoying feeders as my staples. But you can purchase them online in most weather conditions, just see what the terms are on some of the sites and you'll probably have to pay a bit extra for winter shipping (heat packs, double box, etc.). http://premiumcrickets.com is where I got most of mine, Mike was great. There's actually a cricket farm link somewhere in here I'll find for you who is out of MI, so you might even be able to arrange pickup or get much cheaper shipping quotes. Mealworms: Not my favorite feeder. They aren't good to feed beardies and cresteds generally only attack things that are relatively fast moving. I have yet to watch my colony of cresteds savor ANY kind of worm for that matter. Leos can have them as a staple and they are dirt cheap and super easy to breed. I typically use http://nyworms.com Superworms: Same as mealworms except safe to feed to Adult beardies. They have a better meat to shell ratio so are actually better overall feeders than mealworms. Silkworms: Beardies LOVE them, and they are the most nutritionally packed feeder out there. Downside: their expensive and can be more time consuming to keep, and my leo wasn't as fond of a food without crunch and again, being a worm cresties generally ignore them. I use http://mulberryfarms.com Hornworms: MUST be purchased online, do NOT feed from garden or they will be toxic. Same info as silks. Phoenix Worms and Butter (Trevo) Worms: These are two totally different species of feeder but I clump them in the same category. Beardies like them and leos sometimes do, and they are also high in calcium. The downside is they are even more expensive than silks...and phoenix worms are soo tiny that they barely make for a meal unless you feed the whole tub. Butters are a great treat Waxworms: Treat only. Extremely high in fat and basically lizard candy. I feed a waxworm or two to ever herp only about once a month. Roaches: IMO these are the ultimate feeder insect. I've had no trouble getting any of my herps to take these and they are much easier to keep and raise than crickets. I became feeder independent for the most part by breeding balptica dubia, discoid roaches, and turkistan roaches (lateralis). They dont smell, fly, climb, jump, and they dont infest your house. Initial cost is a lot on most roaches, but once you get a colony going your SET. I would recommend breeding roaches if you don't want to pay hundreds (I'm not joking) on feeders for a baby beardie. I've got a few sites where you can get lateralis, 1000 shipped for about $25. Thats barely more than the cost of crickets but if you let em breed you'll be golden ^_^ http://aaronpauling.com http://theroachranch.com Now to your questions =) Crickets will generally do fine with winter shipping from a good supplier, and their life expectancy depends on the size you choose to get. Adults may only live a couple of weeks, while pinheads will live a couple of months. It also depends on temps, the cooler you keep them, the slower they grow and therefore the longer they live. I've always kept mine in the basement where its about 65 degrees if i want to halt growth. Crickets are easy to maintain, but as I mentioned earlier you will probably be spending more time caring for them than your herps themselves lol. They are a good feeder, but with the insect load I was handling they werent cuttin it and were just too much work to and smell. The number of feeders eaten will vary from individual to individual, and the inset itself. For example, a baby beardie may eat 100 1/8" crickets, or only 15 silkworms that are appropriate size due to their higher weight. Weekly... Crested Gecko - I feed mine insects once a week and each will take anywhere from 5-10 crickets or lateralis in a sitting. If feeding dubia or discoid nymphs they only go through about 5 tops. Leopard Gecko - Dependent on the age, you can expect to go through roughly 6-12 insects in your average sitting. They eat every day to every other day...so I'd say maybe 60 crickets a week if thats all you feed. Bearded Dragon - Here it comes...the black hole. A baby beardie will own anything you put in front of it's face and be looking for more before it can even breathe. I fed mine 3x a day while growing and at every sitting I fed off anywhere from 15-40 crickets. I had to buy 1000 crickets of appropriate size every week and a half to maintain a baby beardie. That also not including salad that is fed every morning. If you go beardie and any other lizard along with it, I would highly recommend breeding roaches and getting a hold of some soon to let them get established before bringing the baby bearie into the mix. 1000 lateralis after a couple of months of breeding and you can feed all you want out of it and wont have to buy any other feeder except for some variety. It's up to you, but I really wish I knew about roaches when mine was growing up cause i spent about $40+ a month to raise him when I could have simple spend that one time on roaches adn been good to go for life. Adult beardies though primarily feed on plant matter and will only take a few bugs every other day or so. I primarily feed salad, pellets, and a few silkworms, supers, and some roaches here and there to my adult. Hope that helps, I'm trying to get this out quick so I'll touch anything up and add more to it later tonight but I've got some buddies waiting on me for MW2 =)
As always Jeff, thanks for the awesome post. ^_^ And I think you may have sold me on roaches. No smell? Seriously? That is a huge plus. XD I'd love to get a beardie, but man... $40 or so a month on crickets just ain't gonna happen right now. But a one time investment of roaches... yeah, that I could deal with. What type of caging (size) would I need for a colony of roaches? A ten gallon, a twenty - or something bigger? And the fact that they aren't all climbers is a plus. I hate it when there are bugs running around in the house, it's just annoying. Also... are roaches generally Okay when shipped in cold weather? I figure they're the same as crickets, but I don't know for sure. I've also read they live longer, which is good. If I get only a couple of lizards and feed crickets, they'd likely start dieing before I could get to using them (since I'd buy in bulk). XD Thanks again for the post. It is certainly a major help. As a side note, I still need to buy MW2. That game looks so boss.
It's pretty excellent ^_^ Roaches should be alright with winter shipping, most of the suppliers will charge about a $4.00 winter shipping fee which generally includes an extra heat pack and possibly a double box to keep it insulated. Dubia are probably my favorite roach, and they can live for about 18 months or so but take approx. 5 months to reach adult size from birth. A plus is they give live birth and you can choose a variety of nymph sizes as they grow. You typically want about 2 adult females pooping out babies for every one feeder roach you'll give a day. So you will probably want a solid 150-250 adult females at the ready for when you begin feeding heavely out of your colony for the beardie. They give birth to about 25-30 babies a month and are slow growers, and they are also a little more expensive. Generally you can get about 200 mixed size for about $50 shipped...but if you keep an eye on some classifieds you can get them a lot cheaper with people needing to move em from surplus. Just remember its an investment so initial cost will be more =) Lateralis AKA turkistan or red runner roaches are smaller and great for beardies, leos, and cresteds. The downside is they stay small..only maxing out adult size about like crickets (they are literally like cricket replacements). So an adult beardie will be eating more lateralis compared to only a few big juicy dubia. They are faster moving but generally arent a big deal since they dont jump which is a big plus =). They are also a LOT cheaper. For $50 after shipping I'd bet you can get yourself anywhere from 2000+ mixed sizes. They are also a little more prolific, so after buying that many you could easily feed heavely out of the colony almost immediately. The cheapest sites I've seen are: http://aaronpauling.com http://theroachranch.com http://afexotics.weebly.com/available-feeders.html NOTE ^^ the A.F. Exotics actually has a bearded dragon special for $60 shipped with a good mix to get a colony going to feed to a beardie on dubia. It's actually a really good deal...I'd still give em a couple of months to fester abit before feeding heavily out of the colony but thats a good one if you want to go with dubia. And they do have a certain odor to them....I won't lie to you and tell you they dont smell at all BUT it's nothing like crickets and it wont smell up your room. I can only smell my roaches when i lift the lid off of their bin and then its only for a few seconds before most of the odor dissipates or I get used to it but it's not a bad smell. I would say it would take 2000 roaches to equate to the smell after one week of only 100-200 crickets. And you still dont get the chirping or jumping and escaping. I would just get yourself a plastic dark tub like a rubbermaid. I've got a ten gallon one and with egg crate stacked vertically I could probably do about 1000 mixed dubia nymphs and probably double that on lateralis. They're cheaper than aquariums and lighter weight, plus the roaches feel more secure since its darker. I just cut a square hole at the top and used packing take to thoroughly secure some screen mesh for ventilation and your good to go! EDIT: I'd like to add that the water crystals are dirt sheap and very well worth it. I bought $20 worth and i have LOTS of roaches and it will equate to about 22 gallons of gel that will last me more than a year. Also, Dubia need heat! I forgot to add that, you'll want to rig up heat tape or a Cobra mat for those guys to keep em breeding. They like it about 90-100 degrees for optimal breeding but lateralis can take it cooler (but still grow faster when warmer).
Oohh... water crystals. Those must be what they drink. Wow, it'd be bad if I forgot that. XD And I'm thinking of setting up a colony of Dubia roaches (heat won't be a problem now that I know if that thar flexwatt ). Slower is good, I would think. Less a chance of them escaping. How long prior to getting a beardie/leo would you recommend setting up the colony? I probably won't be getting a beardie for a couple months, as I don't even have a crested yet. Even that may be a little while, as I have yet to find them... the one expo I mentioned hasn't had any yet, that I've seen; it's only seven vendors or so total. It's small, still getting on its feet. I'm making plans to go to the Kalamazoo one in the future (not for a couple months, as I need to get a ride there and would prefer to wait for the 2010 hatchling burms and bloods), and man... it looks to be much bigger. Supposedly the biggest one in MI. Though I'm still not sure I'll find Crested geckos... they seem to be a tough lizard to find, at least around here. Either that, or I've not looked in the right places. ^_^ But anyway, I'm getting off topic here (lol, I tend to do that). I will say that you have sold me on the roaches though. I love the idea of having a relatively odorless feeder, no noise and no jumping. Sounds awesome. Also, would you say a baby/young Leo could feed on these Dubia roaches? I'd rather just set up the one colony for starters, so I'm hoping those are all around good feeders.
Well, they can get their moisture from eating greens and veggies but the water crystals are so cheap and effective that I use those for most of the water needs and feed veggies just for added gutload and moisture a couple of times a week. 7 Vendors? Man that reminds me of a show i traveled 2 and half hours for that only had 5. It was sort of depressing, but it wasn't a total loss cause that is where I picked up my boa. Totally lucked out, I think sometimes things really do happen for a reason =) Cresteds are a tricky to come by sometimes...or at least more desirable morphs. We have the privilege of having Robbie Hamper vend the Ohio show(s) and another solid breeder or two, but otherwise I've found you generally only see an oddball here and there that a vendor is trying to move out. I've gotten most of mine from online breeders or classifieds, if you havent seen his sites yet you gotta check Anthony Caponetto out... http://acreptiles.com or http://ciliatus.com The dubias will make fine food for any age leo, crestie, or beardie. The newborn nymphs are less than 1/4" long and the grow to be about 2.5" ish as adults. So the small to medium sized nymphs will be great for leos, cresties, and young beardies while your big ones will be pooping out the babies or excess fed off to your beardie when he reaches adulthood. If you go with that bearded dragon package at A.F. Exotics then i would give the roaches a good couple of months to get established before really feed good and heavy out of it...AKA when beardie comes home =) if you start getting overwhelmed with adults for some reason you can always just kill em off or sell excess to make some money back. I've pretty much made back what I initially paid but selling off extras; although I just recently picked up a 250 mixed bunch from a classified for only $35 shipped...couldnt turn the deal down and I needed to beef up the dubia colony a bit for when beardie gets out of brumation. I'll be over my head again though come springtime =P I get off topic all the time too ^_^ perfectly understandable lol
Basically just wanted to say DITTO on everything Jeffreh stated above....and basically just wanted to say that while I started my Dubia Colony a few months ago, I REALLY wished I had started sooner....I use the same large rubbermaid container that I used to house my crickets in....and can certainly attest to the fact that Dubia are MUCH easier to maintain.....my cresties eat the nymphs...my leos eat the juvenile and my Beardies eat the adults.... I started my colony with 250 nymphs and 12 adults......while it was first starting out I ordered a second batch of nymphs only, and kept those in a 10 gallon tank....just so I could feed those to my cresties and Leos without have to continually open my colony for the daily feedings, and I kept feeding my Beardies superworms until the colony got going good........currently I feed all my reptiles from my colony...once a week i open the colony to refill the food/water and to take out enough for my weekly feedings and place those into the 10 gallon tank.....that once a week check/refill is literally the ONLY maintenance needed at all....... while some companies will not sell them in the winter months, others will...I purchased mine from http://www.theroachguy.com/ oh, and as for Cresties.....they are actually beginning to become more available...while picking up my fishfood at our local Petco I noticed they had some Cresteds....so if one petco is selling them, I would think others would now be as well... Wish you the best of luck, and DEFINITELY recommend starting a Dubia colony if you are going to own more than one reptile....(and baby Beardies are indeed BOTTOMLESS PITS, so be prepared for their appetite..it is UNREAL to most people until they experience and see if for themselves....lol)
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. And I certainly plan on setting up a Dubia colony sooner or later, probably sooner. I'm not sure whenever I'll be getting a beardie, as the cresteds come first, but everyone I talk to seems to agree: they're black holes when it comes to eating. XD Thanks greatly for the help. ^_^
