chameleon skin problem urgent help..

Discussion in 'Chameleons' started by adamf, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. adamf

    adamf Embryo

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    Cage Type - glass viv 3ft x 3ft
    Lighting - reptiglow 5.0 uv
    Temperature - 76 night 88 day

    Humidity - 60

    Plants - plastic plants all around wooden branch for basking spot fountain which he does drink from
    Location garage quiet

    hi hope you can help i have had this chameleon for 2 years over the last few days it looks like he has an infection on his back see pic [​IMG] i have put some repti wound healing aid on it today wonder if this will help any one else seen this before thanks adam
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. bruno

    bruno Moderator

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    Hi,
    First, welcome to the forums.
    I dont know a lot about chams, hopefully heika will see this and add to it.
    It could be a bacterial infection or has it been chewed on by crickets.
    That wound aid will help it from getting worse but I would recommend you see a good vet.
    They may give you anti-fungal cream or antibiotic cream to apply.
    These are just my thoughts and not "gospel", the sure way is through a good vet.
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    That gave me the crawlies even looking at the poor chameleon.

    It looks like a bad burn to me. First thing you should do.. check the temperature in the basking area for your chameleon. If your house temperatures are cool (have you kicked on the air conditioner recently?) your chameleon will hang under the light to warm up. If the basking light is too hot, or if it can get too close to it, it will burn itself. Chameleons don't have a "Oh ****, I am burning my skin off" response. Your basking light isn't inside the cage, is it? If so, that would easily explain what happened... if the cham has access to touch the bulb, it looks like it did. Oh, I just noticed that you are keeping him in a glass viv. How close is the light to the glass? The glass will get hot, too.

    If you look at the animal's knees, arms, casque, spine.. all of these are burned. I have seen a lot of burned animals in my years keeping chameleons, and have had it happen to a few of my own. But, I have to tell you.. I have never, ever seen a chameleon look as bad as your chameleon does right now. I can see by the body form on your chameleon that you take good care of him, but even with good health, a burn like that can easily kill him. You need to get him to a knowledgable herp vet.. ASAP. The vet will probably prescribe some preventative antibiotics, and give you some silvadine cream for the smaller burns. I am not sure what they will do for that huge open wound on his spine.. and his casque looks like it may be heading that way, too.

    I would not feed crickets right now, unless you are hand feeding them. Make sure that you don't have any loose in the cage.. they will be attracted to that messy wound and make it worse.

    After you address that nasty wound, there are some improvements you can make to his viv.. but first and foremost.. get that animal to a vet before it dies.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. teiryklav

    teiryklav Member

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    yes vet asap.
    i know nothing about cham but that burns are really bad from what i see.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. adamf

    adamf Embryo

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    thanks for the good reply the vet will be done asap finding a vet who deals with these was hard ..
    do you think the sun shining into the viv could have done this as this has just happened and us in the uk have had a few good days of sun?? he has been in the same spot for aprox 10 months and no problems what so ever he is still feeding fine and moving ok i am going to disinfect the viv today and remove any bugs again thanks guys any other advice will be greatfull..
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    I suppose the sun coming into a glass viv could do that. In fact, it sounds very likely. Do you have (or can you get) a temperature gun with a laser? I have this one and it has done a great job for me. It reads the surface temp of things, and you can even use it to read the surface temperature of your chameleon's skin. Avoid the eyes, of course.. :lol: Different seasons will cause different temps in the cages. I am constantly checking and rechecking temps to make sure they are alright for my chams.

    Good plan on disinfecting the cage. I would keep things extremely sterile for the next few weeks, and again, be careful with the roaming bugs. Glad to hear he is still eating and moving around alright.. sturdy fellow. Getting him to the vet is the first step. The biggest concern is when infection sets in. He will probably need to have some of that dead stuff removed to help with healing, too. He may never look the same again, but if the vet can help you with keeping him from getting a bad infection, he will probably recover just fine.

    Good luck, and please keep us updated on his progress.
     
  12. teiryklav

    teiryklav Member

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    may i ask you a few question heika?
    is that thing beneath the deepest burn (they yellow one) the back skeleton of the cham??
     
  13. adamf

    adamf Embryo

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    what do you think of the setup in the mean time got the appointment with the vet in the morning that's the earliest i can find the viv has been moved away from any sun .
    There was no way he could get too close to the bulb if so this should have happened before now??
     
  14. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    Hey Adam,

    Can you take an overall pic of the setup? I can't get it quite right in my head with your photos.

    What wattage is that big red bulb? And, how close is the basking site to it?

    Adam.. funny thing. You can have a setup one way for a long time without an issue, and then suddenly have an issue. Perhaps your cham was climbing that green stuff and got too close to the bulb, who knows. Is there any way you can get the bulb out of the cage? Every single one of my chameleons have eventually climbed around on the ceiling of their cages, or tried. Is your cage ceiling made of wood/glass, or is it screen? If you can't take that bulb out because of the way the cage is made, can you get a ceramic heater instead? They don't get as hot to the touch. If you don't get it out of there, it is going to happen again.

    Let us know how the vet visit goes.. :lol:

    Heika
     
  15. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    I don't know.. I can't tell from the picture.
     
  16. bruno

    bruno Moderator

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    Heika,
    Have to disagree with you
    They get extremely hot, a 60w ceramic has a surface temp of well over 300F and a 250w around 1000F
    Checked with an IRgun, Caution should be used when using ceramics.
     
  17. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    Oh, didn't realize they got that hot. I have only used them a few times, with a controller to keep the heat down. Thanks for that, Bruno.

    Adam.. the best solution is to get the heat sourse out of the cage all together.
     
  18. bruno

    bruno Moderator

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    That cage looks like an Exo-terra with a mesh top so heat source would be better outside on top
    .
    Looks like one of these.
    Exo-terra
     
  19. adamf

    adamf Embryo

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  20. adamf

    adamf Embryo

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    sorry missed 50w exo terra infra red??
     
  21. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    Hey Adam,

    In a perfect world, your cham would stay right on that junction in the wood. But, we can see he is up on the wall in the photo. How close is he to the light where he is hanging now? How close if he is hanging on the green plastic plants on the right of the cage? Or, how close if he is hanging upside down from the screen above the light? Those exoterra cages aren't very large.. there isn't a lot of room for him to get away from the light. Bruno is right.. with the top screened in like that, you can easily move the light out of the enclosure to a clamp lamp on top. It would be so much safer.

    Those little exoterra cages are wonderful.. great little cages for a small leaf chameleon colony, or for the temporary housing of a juvenile larger species chameleon. However, they don't offer the size that a full grown veiled needs. The tallest one you can get is only 24" tall. I keep adult veiled males in cages that are at least 48x24x24. At a bare minimum, they really should be kept in housing that is at least 36x18x18. I can see why you would want to use it, especially since you have the chameleon housed in your garage. With it's glass sides, it would help to retain more warmth than a screen cage. Honestly, Adam, it is past time to get him a larger enclosure. You may want to build him something custom since you are keeping him in the garage.. something that will stay warm. If the chameleon is about 2 years old, he is sexually mature, and should be pacing the cage a bit. With a cage that small, it is inevitable that he will get too close to the light. And, bottom line.. regardless what the size of the cage is, a light should never be inside the cage with the chameleon. They will get burned, it is only a matter of when.

    I don't use water fountains in my cages because chameleons tend to poop in them.. bugs drown in them.. etc. I don't want my chams drinking dirty water. But, it looks like you keep yours clean, and your chameleon certainly looks like it is in good shape, with the exception of the big burn. You should still be misting your chameleon at least once a day, though. Or, you could shower him on a live plant. The reason for that is so that he can clean his eyes. It will reduce the chance that he will get an eye infection in the future. If you decide to shower him, set a large plant in the bathtub, make sure the water is luke warm, and then aim the shower head at the wall of the shower next to the plant. The spray will bounce back onto the chameleon and the plant. Leave him there for a half an hour or more. For the first few showers, always keep a close eye on him. If he is moving around checking things out, he could fall to the tub and injure himself.

    A couple other things.. with a larger cage, you can use some live plants. They help with humidity and make the enclosure more natural. The chameleons feel more comfortable in them. I use a lot of ficus in mine, but other plants as well. Strong, bushy, and non-toxic.. that seems to fit the bill. Here is a link to plants: http://www.chameleonforums.com/plants/ Note the star ratings. A couple of the plants shown are toxic, and are there to showcase them to people because they are often confused with safe plant species.

    One other thing... your UVB light. Not the best brand to choose.. :lol: You have access to a great brand in Europe that we don't have here in the US.. Arcadia. Check out a report on some of the bulbs, it will help you make a good choice in the future. http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm Because I don't have access to the Arcadia brand bulbs (I have actually made an effort to have them imported without any luck) I use Reptisun 5.0's. Reptisun 10.0's are a bit too much UVB in my opinion, but I have used them in the past. Keep in mind that bulbs deteriorate over time, and need to be changed about every 6 months.
     
  22. bruno

    bruno Moderator

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    Hi Adam and Heika,
    The Arcadia lamps are fantasic, I use 2x D3 12% with reflectors in my beardie tank, they have been in there 15 months now. When I first put them in, using a solar meter, I got readings of 400, which is as good as being in the tropics at noon and not a cloud in the sky, now they are still reading around 100 which is still good.
    So a 5% would do nicely.
    This is only a theory, but if that reptiglo 5% is old, and they are not that good is the first place, the output may be very weak. Now it looks like your cham can get close or even lay against it on those vines etc you have near it. The surface of the tubes do get very warm to touch and chams being fairly delicate creatures, has been trying to get as close as possible to get the UVB. As I say this is theory but if he's been laid against it, it's possible that's where he's got these burns from.
    Just a thought and worth looking into.
     
  23. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    Good theory, Bruno, but UVB bulbs don't get warm enough to cause the damage that we can see on his poor veiled. I think that nasty wound was caused by the main heat lamp in the cage.. :lol: Maybe the chameleon was crawling along the screen top and fell.. falling against the bulb. Who knows? Maybe the cham was trying to escape the heat all together, and being more active. The temps in the cage don't really drop much, even at night. With the sun coming in too, it may have been too much all together.

    That was another thing I wanted to mention, Adam, and forgot about. A bigger night time drop would be better for the fellow. The temp can safely drop down to 65 or so.. or even 60, with some acclimation. The cage itself should have a variety of temps.. hottest under the heat lamp, up to 95 F or so, and then different gradients around the cage. That is why I always put heat lamps in one corner of the cage, so that the rest of the cage can offer more of a gradient.
     
  24. Heika

    Heika Moderator

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    I really wish they would export some of those lamps to the US.. the stats on them are amazing.
     
  25. teiryklav

    teiryklav Member

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    ok now i'm outa here lol :p i don't get all of this thingy (solarmeter, etc etc)
    but one thing heika, his name is bruno lol :lol:
     

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