BP--I'm sorry to hear that. Is it IBD? (If so, take care, it is highly contagious, and it's believed it can be spread by mites as well). Since learning more, I quarantine all of my new animals for 12 months, instead of 3 months. Thank you for what you are doing in giving vets the opportunity to study this scary disease. Brian Barcyzk did some feeding experiments with corn snakes, and found that the best growth rates were produced by feeding large prey items on a weekly schedule, rather than feeding smaller items more often. Mousers do grow more slowly...but then, with a pet male, it's unlikely to matter. They are still healthy. Ball pythons tend to grow larger and faster when more food is available, but they don't starve if they're given less than optimal-sized meals (up to a point of course)--they just grow more slowly. I've currently been feeding regular-sized prey on a weekly basis. Growth rates vary widely between individuals with the same food intake, so genetics no doubt plays a large role in the potential size of a ball python. I have some animals that reach 800 to 900 grams by age 1, and others that barely reach 500, and they've been on the same feeding schedule. Some choose not to eat every time food is offered, of course. What you're describing isn't power-feeding, though. For ball pythons, power feeding would be following the tail of a rat that is being swallowed with the nose of a second rat, to trick the snake into eating more than it would voluntarily. It leads to liver issues and 'pinhead syndrome'. Ball pythons, unlike boas, will not overeat, and can essentially be fed as much as they are willing to eat, until they are adults. No ill effects or deformities occur as a result. I like to start hatchlings on a a 3 to 4 day schedule for their first month, then a 4 or 5 day schedule for their first 6 months of life, and then switch to a 5 to 7 day schedule. The snakes let me know when they're ready for longer breaks by beginning to refuse meals--I extend the days between the next offering, and they go back to eating regularly. Boas suffer terrible problems, including fatty liver disease, if they're fed more often than once a week when young. Ball pythons just grow bigger.
the name of the disease escapes me but its a neurological and pretty much scrambles up the electrical signals to the body......in its head it wants to move its head up but instead rotates the head sideways and corkscrews. very bizzar . its been separated from the other snakes and the room has really good cross draft ventilation. there is alot riding on this because as i said before and no doubt you know that affected snakes dont live long after. since this one not only is alive still but it navigates to drink water and it even eats, tho it takes awhile to get it down one it manages to make a successful grab. for these reasons my vet offers services and test no charge because he hasnt seen one last longer than 3 months so it presents good opportunities to better treat. and i refer to power feeding when the normal single feeding per week is doubled. ive never been a fan of stacking each feeding like you describe. it would appear we have gone slightly off topic from the original inquiry but this was a good conversation either way
Well, without a necropsy, inclusion body disease can't be positively diagnosed. There are congenital neurological problems that can mimic it. Excessive heat can also damage the brain, and create these symptoms. Improper incubation temperatures produce snakes with these symptoms sometimes. It can be genetic. 2 ball python color and pattern mutations also have inherent neurological problems, referred to as a 'wobble', which includes head tilt, corkscrewing, failure to turn rightside up promptly, and tremors. (The spider and woma mutations). IBD tends to eliminate the animal's appetite once neurological signs appear, so are you really sure this is a disease at all, and not just a neurological problem with another cause? It doesn't really sound like IBD. IBD snakes show a severe loss of motor control, stargazing (holding the head up at a sharp angle), and repetitive motions, they often regurgitate food, and eat little or nothing. There are other viruses that produce neurological symptoms, but they have other symptoms as well, and virtually all illnesses cause loss of appetite in ball pythons.
ibd is what it was call by the vet, all the symptoms you described are occuring with this snake. all except the eating. she still constricts (if you would want to call it that) lets just say that its a good thing that the rats are pre-killed before i feed her. strangely tho the symptoms recently have been coming and goin but are still always there. i mean that she can go in a straight line from one side of the enclosure to the other very smoothly but then she will try to move her head to look around and then it looks like shes waving at me. still stargazes and twist around funny at times. do you know if its sumthing they ever recover from? or being its a neurological disorder and affects the nervous system, does it make it a lasting condition?
hot rocks are much safer for snakes than the heating pads. you would do well to trash the pad and replace it with a heat rock. If the snake has pus coming from a wound, it likely needs an intramuscular injection of antibiotics which can only be obtained by a veternarian. Take it to the vet.
did i just read this correctly? Heat rocks are safer than under tank heating pads? either your being very sarcastic , or you have been severely mis-informed. heat rocks, have problems regulating the current of electricity through them. you can have one that never gives you a problem, or you could have one after a week that surges randomly and will flash burn without warning. Meaning it heats up soo fast the reptile doesnt react and get off quick enough and gets burned. under tank heating pads are by far the safer alternative because by design are not insulated , rather they are thin, and dont build up excessive heat. plus when properly placed under the tank, and the inside of the tank is lined with carpet,bedding, or any other media it protects which ever reptile you have. it wont even come close to getting burned, even with a 1 in a million chance the pad for some random reason craps out. and when i talk about heat pads , i mean under tank heat pads, not putting them inside the tank. General Husbandry and Management Chapter, in Reptile Medicine and Surgery - Sean McKeown (Douglas Mader, DVM, ed. W.B. Saunders. 1996. Pp. 9-19) "Historically, the hot rock has been the most misused heating source. It should never be used as the primary heat source. Hot rocks are made of clay, cement or hard plastic molded or formed around an electric resistor (heating coil). As the electric coil heats up, so does the surrounding mold. The reptile is expected to crawl on or coil around this rock and maintain its body temperature. These rocks do not heat the captive environment.; therefore, a reptile housed in a terrarium heated only with a hot rock will not have the proper warmth to meet its metabolic requirements and may receive severe burns. Hot rocks are only effective when buried under the substrate and used as a secondary heat source. Most do not have any built-in means to control their temperature output, resulting in an "all or none" heating system. Although these have somewhat standardized construction, they typically vary in size and heat production. What may be an appropriate size and temperature for a large python may be dangerously hot for a small king snake. Likewise, a small, buried hot rock suitable as a secondary heat source for a small snake would be less effective for a large-bodied snake. Hot rocks are also notorious for having surface "hot spots" that can reach such high temperatures that severe thermal burns can result. Hot rocks are suitable only for ground dwelling species of snakes and must be insulated from the live animal." to further prove my point i share these links. http://www.anapsid.org/hotrock.html http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-articles/heat-rocks-hidden-dangers.html
Hot rocks are not recommended for use with snakes by ANY manufacturer, and no care sheet or book on the planet written by anyone with more than a couple of years experience recommends them for any reptile. Heating pads should ALWAYS be used with a thermostat or rheostat, and burns and overheating are the result of misusing these devices by simply plugging them straight into a wall with no controlling device. BP--how did your vet diagnose IBD? ...because, as I said, it cannot be diagnosed positively without a necropsy. Inclusion body disease is 100% fatal and progressive. It may be that your vet is not highly familiar with reptile medicine, and does not realize how many other things can cause neurological symptoms in snakes. Your description of the snake's behavior and continued good feeding response...well, it really doesn't fit IBD. Did your veterinarian actually take a biopsy and identify inclusion bodies as present? (Lack of them doesn't mean IBD is not present, but their presence is a good indicator of IBD or one of several other viral illnesses). Other neurological issues that snakes may have, caused by overheating, developmental issues during incubation, or genetics, can be stable and non-progressive, but may worsen when the animal is under stress (including 'good stress' like feeding time), and recede when it is calm. Your snake's continuing good appetite isn't consistent with IBD. Has its condition worsened progressively? If a year passes, and your snake is still alive, and still eating well, then it most likely does not have IBD, and I would also have no worries about its having anything contagious. Ball pythons tend to be like canaries in the coal mine when it comes to IBD--they almost always develop acute symptoms quickly and die rapidly. Boas are more prone to carry it for long periods. Here is a video of a spinner ball python (spider pinstripe) wobbling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlX58vxt0AU This snake is perfectly healthy--there's nothing 'wrong' with it. The neurological signs are due to the spider mutation, and this snake will eat and breed without issues or apparent distress. More healthy spiders with wobbles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQmiywlaJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA4lBpoPIWY These are fairly severe cases, most spiders don't wobble quite so badly. This is what IBD looks like (warning--very disturbing in some cases): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZrDfW9-4g8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9qkxu91Uns http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBHmHgfAlao http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0cVJwqyUw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqorD7yh6p0 You can see the similarities, but if you look long enough, you'll also see differences. The sick snakes are listless, and have poor muscle tone. They are less reactive, and their motions are more repetitive and less directed. The degradation of muscle tone, damage to the pancreas, and damage to the spleen lead to an inability to feed, and eventually, even drink. Snakes with IBD always die. More information: http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/snake-health/snake-inclusion-body-disease.aspx IBD is only 'treated' with supportive care, and force-feeding--the animal WILL die of it. It remains HIGHLY contagious, and the snake poses a threat to any other snake that may come into contact with it, its bedding, or anything else it has touched. It is vital to use very strict quarantine procedures with this animal until you are sure of what's going, and even more so if you are sure it's IBD. How long has the snake been symptomatic?
she has had symptoms for about 6 or 7 months now. the vet is pretty sure that its ibd. id take his word just because of the experience he has. His name is DR. CARL P. TOMASCHKE D.V.M. OF SENECA ANIMAL HOSPITAL. HE PROVIDES SERVICE FOR THE BUFFALO ZOO IN NY AS WELL AS SEVERAL PET STORES,AREA BREEDERS, AND EVEN NICKEL CITY REPTILES. THE ONE SEEN ON "LATE NITE WITH JIMMY FALLON". He, to the best of his knowledge believes that it is ibd .Im not a vet so i wouldnt know either way but i trust this man and what he says. my whole collection is seen by him every 4 months for check ups, just so i know all my reptiles are in perfect health. thats why he doesnt charge me for the visits for this one snake because tho he is sure about it being ibd, he is interested in how it still functions in some regards and want to basically study her to see what sets her apart from others that would have died or gotten worse. beyond that i dont know much else to say other than what i have already. could he be mistaken? its possible given the nature of trying to confirm on a live specimen but givin who he is i take his word for it. trust me , i wish it was sumthing else that was treatable. i looked at the videos and the ones with the ibd are exactly what mine is doin but its intermittent. now i was curious, if the spider ball pythons have the wobble, does it carry over to combo morphs? i saw the spinner in the video but is it almost always gunna happen as long as there is spider genes present?
Did he do biopsies? (You absolutely cannot diagnose it just by looking at the animal, which is why I ask--tests that showed inclusion bodies would make it likely that the snake has IBD, but if those tests were not done...it's very unlikely). Any animal that has the spider or woma genetic mutation can have 'wobble'. It's very prevalent in spiders, a bit less so in womas (though still common). This includes combos--they have the spider gene, so they have the wobble. I hatched some babies this year that had developmental issues--I believe that the female laid the clutch on the heat tape, and I may have found it a day too late, as it was a very late clutch that I wasn't expecting. 2 hatchlings never made it out of the egg, 1 was severely kinked and ataxic, and the other had a small kink but terrible ataxia. The remaining 4 hatchlings were fine. The kinked hatchling was euthanized, but we decided to give the ataxic one a chance for a month--it did indeed start feeding, but it was so debilitated, prone to spinning violently, that we made the decision to euthanize it. This is one more example of how a snake with severe neurological signs may not actually be ill. I'm not arguing with your vet, mind you, I'm only asking whether he actually did diagnostic tests on the snake and found inclusion bodies. If he did not...well, you can see from the videos, neurological signs are just that, and nothing more. There are MANY things that can cause neurological issues and ataxia.
