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Discussion in 'Water Dragons' started by Laveau, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Laveau

    Laveau Embryo

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    :unsure: Preparing to acquire a Chinese water dragon. Will most likely be getting somebody that is just out of the egg. So even though I am doing lots and lots of research and reading I still have some questions. And here they are:

    1) I know that Chinese water dragons eat superworms. The superworm turns into the darkling beetle when it becomes an adult. Is there a possibility that they could eat carabid beetles either pupa or adult?

    2) Are nightcrawlers safe for water dragons to eat?

    3) This might sound like a stupid question. In some of material that I have read it says to feed hatchlings "small feeder insects". But none of the material specifies which kinds of small feeder insects to feed hatchlings. My vet said that feed should be live. Obviously because of that I can't feed dragon something that is bigger than it is. So what is the best thing to feed hatchlings?

    4) Are ants safe for water dragons to eat?

    5) How early in water dragon's life can it be sexed via DNA?

    6) What do female water dragons do with their eggs if the eggs don't hatch because they are unfertilized? :unsure:
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. StikyPaws312

    StikyPaws312 Moderator

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    Are you planning on catching insects in your area and feeding them to your water dragon? Nightcrawlers are very large and could potentially be TOO large for most reptiles, they aren't really safe for many reptiles... and for the life of me I can't remember why besides their size! I'll do some research and see if I can find anything... OK so here's what I found so far:
    "Title: Nutritive value of earthworms.
    Personal Authors: Sun ZhenJun (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/SearchResults.aspx?cx=011480691189790707546:cops6f zdyna&cof=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=Sun%20ZhenJun&sa=Search)
    Author Affiliation: College of Resources and Environmental Sciences, China Agricultural University, 100 094 Beijing, China.
    Editors: Paoletti, M. G.
    Document Title: Ecological implications of minilivestock: potential of insects, rodents, frogs and snails

    Abstract:
    The chemical compositions of the earthworm Eisenia fetida, its casts and body fluids were investigated and compared with those of a variety of common foods and animal feeds. Nutrient analyses showed that Eisenia fetida meal has a high protein content in the range of 54.6 to 71.0% dry matter. The protein content and amino acid composition were close to those of fish meal and eggs, and higher than cow milk powder and soyabean meal. Casts of E. fetida had a protein content of 7.9% dry matter, similar to that of maize meal, and hence earthworm casts could be used not only as an excellent organic fertilizer, but also for partial replacement of maize meal or wheat bran in animal diets. Earthworm body fluids contained 9.4% protein and 78.79 free amino acids per litre and were rich in vitamins and minerals, in particular iron (Fe). Our nutrient analyses suggest that the earthworm (Eisenia fetida) could be an excellent protein supplement for animal feed and human food.
    Publisher: Science Publishers, Inc."

    And...
    "Whole frozen earthworms (Eisenia foetida) were evaluated as a partial replacement for commercial pellets for rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss. Earthworms were blanched and treated with concentrated sodium chloride (10%). Fish were submitted to four treatments: control fish were fed with a commercial diet and three groups of fish were fed with diets partially supplemented with earthworms. All fish showed the same appetite for the earthworm-supplemented diets as for the control diet during the course of the experiment (8 weeks). No significant differences (p > 0.05) were detected in the mean final body weights of all groups of fish. A significant decrease was found in the whole-carcass lipid content of fish fed diets containing 25%, 50% and 75% frozen earthworms. The results on growth rate and feed utilization efficiency of fish fed diets containing high levels of whole frozen worms suggested an adverse effect of worm incorporation, probably due to dietary energy/protein imbalance."

    So basically the nutritional content is high in protein, but also pretty high in fat... and when fed to fish it caused an imbalance in their systems. I think they would be ok to place in a varied diet, but I wouldn't feed them as a singular food source. Also, if you are planning on catching/harvesting insects from your area please know that you could potentially be poisoning your reptile if there are any farms in the area.. or if anyone in your neighborhood treats their yard with insect killers or fertilizer.

    Some common smaller feeder insects can be found in a local pet store or online - mealworms, butterworms, crickets, phoenix worms (calciworms, etc, they go by a couple of names, it's soldier fly larvae), silk worms, roaches are a fantastic feeder and can be readily bred at home in a tub or tank... horn worms are a great intermediate feeder because you can get them from a small size up to very large sizes. Wax worms are also appropriate feeders but should be given sparingly because of their very high fat content.

    I'm not sure about that... I don't know if they would even bother going after something that small...
    I'm not sure about the other two questions, as I have never had a CWD myself :-/


     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. Laveau

    Laveau Embryo

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    :confused: Hmmm. :confused:
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. Cammy

    Cammy ReptileBoards Addict

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    Hello, and welcome to the boards! I'll try to answer your questions one by one. Some of my answers will overlap with stiky's, so I apologize in advance for any redundancy.

    1) Adult Chinese Water Dragons can eat superworms, but they should not be used as a staple food item. They are fine as a supplemental food source for added variety, but they don't have ideal nutritional values and have a very poor Calcium/Phosphorous ratio. Their thick, chitin shell can also be a little tougher to digest than softer bodied bugs, so try not to feed too many at one time. The darkling beetles and pupa are not necessarily harmful, but should still be kept at a minimum, especially the beetles, which have a very tough exoskeleton and very little meat, making them difficult to digest and low in nutritional value.

    2) The safety of nightcrawlers depends on where they come from. From what I've read, they carry a high risk of transferring parasites to reptiles, although I haven't read up on them in a while, so you may want to double check me on that. Red wigglers, however, are a definite no-no due to a certain toxin they produce, so make sure you are getting the right worm if you choose to use them. Again, nightcrawlers should be a very rare treat if used at all.

    3) Hatchlings can eat small crickets, roaches, silkworms, and calci/repti/phoenix worms as staple foods. Small mealworms, waxworms, or butter worms can be used but only as a very rare treat if at all.

    4) Feeder ants should be safe, but are an impractical food source. You would need an exhorbitant amount of ants to satiate a water dragon's hunger. They are also small enough that the water dragon may not even take interest. I would not advise using them as a feeder for them.

    5) DNA sexing can be done at any age assuming a vet is willing to do it.

    6) Female water dragons don't incubate their eggs; they simply lay them and then leave them to their own devices. If they lay an infertile egg, they will do exactly the same thing as if they laid a fertile egg--nothing.

    Let us know if you have any more questions. I will say this: these are large and very demanding lizards and should only be taken on by experienced, well-prepared people with a decent amount of time, money, and space to spare. They can be very rewarding animals, but the do take a lot of work.
     
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  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. WingedWolf

    WingedWolf Member

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    1) Zophobas (super worms) turn into a large black beetle that produces a most amazing smelling-salts like substance in self-defense. Very few reptiles will brave that. Zophobas aren't that hard to culture, however. Superworms are only one part of a good diet for an ADULT water dragon.

    2) Yes, and they're a great food item to give them. Just make sure they are actual nightcrawlers, not red worms. There is a small risk of transmitting parasites, but you should have your dragon checked for these each year, at his annual vet check, anyhow. They're an excellent food item, high in protein and low fat, and well balanced. Too big for a hatchling dragon, of course.

    3) You should not feed your dragon anything larger than the space between his eyes. Small calcium-dusted crickets and mealworms, phoenix worms, and the occasional wax worm will all make up a good diet. Once the dragon is a juvenile, begin introducing small amounts of fruits and vegetables as well. Water dragons are omnivorous, although not to the same degree that bearded dragons are. Colorful edible flowers and berries are most likely to pique their interest. Some dragons don't take to greens, while some adult dragons each large amounts of vegetation.

    4) They probably will not like ants, and I can't imagine where you would get a supply of them. Don't feed wild insects to your dragon, they may transmit harmful parasites.
    Stick to the insects mentioned for baby dragons. Adult dragons will happily eat nightcrawlers, zophobas worms, frozen/thawed mouse pups, strips of raw tilapia fish (fresh, not previously frozen), and sometimes fruits and veggies. Use a good calcium supplement and good UVB lighting.

    5) I've never heard of anyone having their dragon DNA checked for gender, but if you want to do that, you could do it at any age. Water dragons are sexually dimorphic, though, so once the dragon reaches adulthood, its gender will be obvious. The enlarged crest and bright colors of the male set him apart from the girls (among other features).

    6) Occasionally water dragon females may lay infertile eggs. They usually sense that the eggs are not viable, and will lay them anywhere, even in the water. If a dragon is suspected of being gravid, she should be provided with a good place to dig a deep hole in moist soil to lay her clutch, just in case she feels the need to do so.

    A handy tip: Water dragons come by their name honestly. Use a bedding that won't turn into a mess when it gets soaked, because it will. Use a shallow plastic pan to provide water and swimming opportunities for your hatchling dragon. Be sure it can get into and out of the water easily. Juvenile dragons can be given a deep cat litter pan set into their cage, which makes it very easy to remove and clean, and allows them to submerge completely. Water dragons prefer to defecate in their water pan, which means you will be scrubbing it out every single day, but you will rarely need to do much to the rest of the cage.

    Plan for the future--an adult dragon will require a custom built cage, or a specialized reptile cage, due to their size (up to 3 feet long). Cages suitable for green iquanas also work well for water dragons. Don't forget an easy to clean plastic pool that the dragon can swim and submerge in! If you go even larger with the enclosure, a small plastic kids wading pool works.

    By the way, the 'earthworm' in the information provided here was Eisenia foetida, which is NOT a nightcrawler. Eisenia foetida is the red wiggler, or red worm, which should not be fed to reptiles as some specimens produce a toxic substance--perhaps when fed certain things, it's unknown at this time what triggers it. In any case, the red wiggler worm used in vermicomposting isn't a good reptile food. The nightcrawler is actually Terrestris lumbricus, a completely different species, and one that is both safer and more palatable. (Red wigglers produce a distasteful mucous). The parasite risk exists, but when feeding a big water dragon, they're such an excellent food item it would be a shame to forgo them. (I raised an exceptionally healthy male dragon, starting with crickets and mealworms, and progressing to zophobas, nightcrawlers, and rat pinks, with some dandelion flowers and leaves, and a bit of fruit on occasion. Tragically, he was killed by a fallen UVB light fixture when he was 3 years old...I still don't know how he unhooked it from the ceiling. (He was free roaming in one room).
     
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