RE: Hello This whole silkback thing seems like it might end up in the same hot water as the trans. Genetic mutations don't exactly have a great track record with the bearded dragon. As for pure bred dogs, I've owned some which were great but not inbred as the lineage was 6 generations apart. anyway back to the topic. I'm not upset due to their not being scales, more at how the dragon arrived to that state. With the proven ill effects of inbreeding and the state of turmoil over adeno the dragon industry is already in it's just adding fuel to a very destructive fire. To know how well the silkbacks would survive in activity we would need to run many new tests on UVB absorption et al, really we don't know what else may have changed with them. So to conclude that they will be fine in captivity is something I wouldn't be willing to do. It just reminds me so much about trans and all the issues related. I can't comment on the snake question as I'm still thinking it over in my head but as for trans dragons I'm sure you can come to a conclusion from this post. I'm not sure if you are aware of the trans history blake but it is one which we do not want to continue.
RE: Hello I am very aware there are problems, and I know there are a lot of people that don't like them, and I also know that I'm not normally active in this section of the forum, so I don't know how people here feel about them. But I know that I have seen them in the past popping up for sale in several places and the numbers of them I was seeing surprised me. I also know they were demanding a pretty high price. I'm not at all saying I agree with that one in particular, but there seemed to be a lot of people out there that were wanting to keep, breed, and sell them anyways... And same for the albinos, none of the ones in existence so far have survived, and there's probably a reason for that... I'm not agreeing with this stuff, I'm just not totally against all "morphs". But you're right that bearded dragons have not seemed to hold up well with genetic mutations... Someone said before, it's not that it's A mutation, it's the way they came to get it that really makes me mad...
Re: RE: Re: RE: italian silk back dragons? just to point out, this is how I said I feel about morphs and mutations... with snakes it's different, and most of those are the ones that I don't really have a problem with. But some of those have other health problems as well... And as I already said, I know beardies haven't had a good track record with genetic mutations, and that's fine, people need to stop supporting it if there are problems
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: italian silk back dragons? I tend to agree with you there blake. I guess the way I can clarify my stance is, if it has an ill effect on the health of the animal then I am against it, if it was done via many generations and comes out healthy then I don't have an issue with it. I'd feel better if ppl didn't try for these mutations as it's the sure fire way to not have the ill effects atleast in dragons. Snakes are a lil different as blake pointed out but the premise is if it doesn't cause ill effects then thats great, those are fine, if it causes health issues don't.
Al1time... I love your quote. dachui has stripped this bd of its identity and probably confused it's insticts... I mean it's hardly gonna look scary bearding up now is it? which moves me on to my next point. captivity: I agree with tux... due to the difference in skin "similar to the eye lid" how do we really know they will be safe and flurish in captivity? That they wont fall from a small branch and end up with a huge injury... bds like to climb. you will have to restrict there natural insticts to keep them alive. and I'm sure the crix will have a field day lol. sorry my real point is this. Captivity and your pets should not be taken lightly... do you know how many animals, fish, anphibians etc become only found in captivity and breed in captivity? It is never ok to say they will survive in captivity so such mutations are ok. We need strong healthy bds, that wont pass on more and more defects along the way. Because we never know what the future holds. I don't disagree with making colours brighter and breeding healthy lines of morphs but striping down a whole lizard till it's... what? wrong. oh and I agree, no one with sense will take this silk back on so it will be a quick think purchase and there is no garuantee that it will be looked after properly. Have you seen how many bds are on the classifieds every day? Because of no space or can't tame them, or no time etc.. they should have thought about it before they made an impulse buy. money does not mean sense, common or otherwise. Hence the term "more money than sense" lol I think the bd has been through enough personally when it is perfect the way it is ... such a shame. As a lover of this species we should do what we can to keep them going from strength to strength not weaken them with adeno and inbreeding. thats my little bit.
Hello Hello, That is a great question of skin & scales, etc. I was reading on UVB absorption the other day, on where they absorbed more UVB's on their body. Surprisingly, you know where they absorb most of their UVB's? Through their beards! There are not really any scales so to speak on their beard, so the UVB's penetrate better. Their backs filtered all but 8 or 10% or something along those lines. That means that the scales are protecting their skins! Sorry I need to find that again. I just thought that was interesting, since you were looking at the type of skin. So my point is, if they have no or very little scales on their back, then, it is definitely going to leave their skin extremely vulnerable to UVB exposure & thermal burns which is not a good thing. Very sad. Tracie
Silkbacks What do you guys think of Silkbacks? A scaleless, no tubercule beardie? http://www.dachiu.com/projects.html (scroll down a bit) IMHO, they kind of freak me out, its like having a hairless cat in a sense.
RE: Silkbacks this has been discused before http://www.reptilerooms.com/index.php?name...pic&t=52313 I don't think it's a good thing
Hello Hello, It has been discussed in great detail as well on the fauna boards. Here is the link, but I must warn you it is very long & gets fairly argumentative. There are alot of opinions on there so if you want to read the thread it will take time to go through. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=100851 It is not a good thing. The discussion on fauna boards actually had Alessandro, the supposed "creator" of this mutation. Tracie
RE: Hello I've gotta agree with you two, and a beardie just isn't the same w/o the scales. I'll definately read through the Fauna thread, thanks.
Hello Hello, You are right, a dragon would not be a dragon without scales. You should read through the long thread though, it is interesting. Tracie
RE: Hello i've seen those and the leatherbacks and i'll admit their cool but i'd never want one. can you imagine the upkeep on those?
RE: Hello I've read the entire fauna thread and I'm glad I don't post there. My opinion is in the thread here, it's not a good thing but Tracie did a good job in that monster of a thread over there making the same points I believe in on the topic.
RE: Hello It is an interesting and interesting looking animal, but it looks freaky and i dont think it is right.
RE: Hello I m italian and I see one of them for real in a rep show in Italy..the breeder just say that besides the skin (that may look nice or not it dipedens from personal flavour)there's no difference with other Bd,they just need to be spraied with water twice a day intead of once as he did with his other Bd..I apologise for my bad english!
RE: Hello Their are UV absorption differences and nobody really knows if anything inside is different without doing a necropsy. Theirs also the issue of being more prone to injury and other things i probably can't even recall or know.
Re: RE: Hello So... Your still opening it up to all kinds of problems, for no reason what so ever. In my opinion no one has a reason to support this kind of thing.
