Just got my 1st Dragon :) help

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by DarkNation, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. ChristyBug

    ChristyBug Member

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    DarkNation - I just bought ceramic tiles - I don't have a car so I bought what was lightest to take on the bus (HAHAHA). Actually the main reason why I bought them was becasue of the price - ceramic tiles run about 50 cents a piece where as the slate tiles are about 4-6 dollars each and you need to seal them with atleast 3-4 coats of sealant so your beardie's feces doesn't soak into the tile.

    Really it mostly comes down to what you prefer best. Most people here use slate tiles, but I found I really liked the sand coloured ceramic much nicer and becuase the surface is flat it's sooo much easier to clean.
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. Tux

    Tux Well-Known Member

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    I actually have used both, I prefer slate but ceramic works.
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. artpac2004

    artpac2004 New Member

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    I work at petco, we use heatpads, well because thats how our viv's are made. All them have heat pads on them, thats how they were set up because we always have different reptiles coming in, some that need them, others that dont, so they just decided to put one on all them. but what is dumber, is that it is in the middle of the tank?? Dont ask why, i have no clue. But yeah, its in the middle, so no heat gradience, no cool side :?: I do not understand this.

    As far as the sand goes, we have to use sand, we dont want to, or atleast me and our reptile specialist dont want to, but we have to. They tell us how it needs to be set up, and if they (corporate people) come in and see that it is not set up the way they tell us to, we get in big trouble. They think it looks better, and im sure they do it for sales to, but i think its dumb. If i see someone walkin with a bag of sand, i stop them and tell them of the risks, and tell them to get slater or tile, or repti carpet, but i like the tile, so easy to clean.

    Thought i'd clear that up for you, and yes, some of the people at pet stores are idiots, dont get me wrong, people come to my store looking for stuff that another one of our stores didn't have, and its all wrong, like today a lady was gettin a beardie, told me she had a heat pad cuz they guy told her he needed it, prolly cuz he really didn't know, but i fixed her up right. She returned that and the sand, and went to home depot to buy some tile. hooray for me, haha.

    P.S. Thanks so much everyone for all the knowledge i have learned from you all, I recommend this site to all my reptile customer, you guys and gals are awesome.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. kinyonga

    kinyonga Member

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    Yup...to each their own. I intend to keep doing things the way I have because I feel that they are the proper precautions to take....and you are free to do as you see fit too. The purpose of my post was to let people know the possibilities so that they can also do what they see fit.

    You are right that if you follow proper hygiene it would be safe to put something in the freezer, for instance....but all it takes is one mistake where you thought you got it all right....so I would just as soon lessen the risk by keeping my own stuff as clean and safe as possible and keeping the reptile stuff separate.

    You said..."The problem with your study about salmonella is the strain tested"...what study are you referring to that I named a salmonella species in?

    You said..." reptile strains haven't even been isolated and identifiedif I remember correctly"...some have been identified and some are the same strains that can infect humans...." Three reptiles were shedding the exact same Salmonella serotype as the infected individual, and three others were positive for Salmonella Arizonae, a serogroup commonly excreted by reptiles"...
    http://www.metrokc.gov/health/epilog/vol4109.htm

    Read the rest of the above site to see other reptile species of salmonella that have been identified.

    "The remaining Salmonella serovars, sometimes referred to as non-typhoidal Salmonella, are zoonotic or potentially zoonotic. S. bongori, S. enterica subsp. salamae, S. enterica subsp. arizonae, S. enterica subsp. diarizonae, S. enterica subsp. houtenae and S. enterica subsp. indica
    are usually found in poikilotherms (including reptiles"...
    link

    You said..."I'm also pretty responsible in checking my herps fecals weekly to biweekly and monitoring any change in weight etc."...things like salmonella and crypto don't always make the lizard sick and they don't always shed....but I'm sure what you are doing will pick up other things that will have an affect on the lizard....and maybe show salmonella, crypto, etc.

    You said..."Heres how I see it, proper precaution taken = safety"...but as I said, it only takes one mistake.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. ChristyBug

    ChristyBug Member

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    wow... i'm surprised a comment about washing tiles in the dishwasher would cause such a stir.. I couldn't imagine if I had mentioned that I used to wash Bella's flag stone in the dishwasher as well...
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. Nessi

    Nessi Member

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    Hi DarkNation and welcome to the forum. You will seriously find the nicest, most informative members and moderators here on this forum. They know from experience and very careful research.

    I got Nessie three years ago from a pet store/breeder. They loaded me up with the sand, the heat pad, and all the gear I thought I needed for my baby. They did tell me I needed to put him on paper towel for 6 months though. I thought I did my research and thought I did everything right. The person I got Ness from was the nicest, most well meaning person you could ever meet. But she was wrong. Nessie got impacted within months after I put him on the calci-sand. I was a die hard. The sand looked pretty. It was what I was told to put him on, but it was wrong. The herp vet wasn't in for several days and I couldn't get Nessie in. I bathed and bathed and soaked, bathed and soaked. Every hour I had him in soaking. Thankfully the impaction wasn't that bad and it passed. Many aren't so lucky. Many who have been on here haven't been so lucky.

    I have slate tile. It looks nice and is easy to clean. I have the large tile in the "potty" area and the smaller tile in the feeding area, just to make it interesting. Yes, if he "goes" between the tile, you have to take up more than one. It takes not more than 5 minutes to clean it up if that happens. Yes, sometimes it gets icky between the tiles and you have to wipe up the glass underneath. Another 3 minutes tops. I have found that if you put a paper towel down, he will only go to the bathroom on the paper towel and then it's a 1 minute job to clean up.

    We got off on the topic of substrate and heating pads, but there is lots more to learn. Read over the care sheets at the top of the forum here. There is a lot of valuable information in those sheets. I know it might be difficult, but you need to separate the beardies soon. They look very cute together but will do much better in their own "homes".

    The goal is to have happy and healthy dragons. They are really wonderful pets. Follow the suggestions you get here and you won't go wrong.
     
  12. Tux

    Tux Well-Known Member

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    it does only take 1 mistake in some cases and when it comes to my herps I follow things to the letter. I don't deviate from my precautions much like a person with hots doesn't deviate from the way they do things. What I was implying is that not everything has been researched to the extent it needs to be when it comes to Salmonella and herps, that not all strains have been identified. I understood what you are saying, I understood what and why you do what you do, I just do things differently and it works for me. To each their own.
     
  13. kinyonga

    kinyonga Member

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    I finally got time to read the whole thread. (Up to now all that caught my eye was the comment about the hygiene.)

    Dark Nation....sorry I didn't say "Welcome to the forum" and give any comments directly to you about your dragon....Welcome!

    Background information: I have kept dragons for over 10 years. The last dragon I lost was over 10 years old. I got my first reptiles in the late 80's....and have kept/raised/bred many species over the years.

    You said."hes eating chrickets well but he doesnt touch the veggies. what i was told to use was frozen mixed veggies. I defrost them and mush it so they can eat it but i never noticed them eating, i tried to hand feed them but no take"...its good that he is eating crickets because they are easier than most other insects to gutload. As for the veggies, frozen thawed to room temperature and chopped to a size that is appropriate is okay to use as a small part of what you give him for the veggie part of the diet....but frozen veggies lack certain vitamins that are destroyed by the freezing. You can use greens (dandelion, endive, escarole, collards, kale, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies cut to appropriate sizes for him (carrots, squash, sweet red pepper, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.) and a small amount of fruit (apple, melon, berries, pear, etc.). Some of these may get him interested.

    You said..."Also i havent noticed they gone to the bathroom yet and ive had them for 2 days"...have they pooped yet?

    I use a regular incandescent light in a hood as a basking light. I place it over one end of the cage so that there is a warm end to the cage and a cooler area.
    I use a UVB tube light that runs the whole length of the cage. I provide hides and wood and rocks for the dragons to climb up onto and to bask on.
    For babies, I use no substrate.

    I feed the young ones insects and greens/veggies (as I already described). I feed the crickets a nutritious diet and gutload them with the same greens/veggies that I feed my dragons....so I guess mine get the veggies and greens even if they don't eat a lot of them from the dish in their cage.

    I dust my crickets with a phosphorous-free calcium powder before feeding them to the dragons. This helps to make up for the poor ratio of calcium to phos. in most feeder insects and ensures that they have enough calcium in their diets to build their bones and use for other bodily needs.

    I also dust the insects with a vitamin powder twice a month. I use one that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A because beta carotene can't build up in the system like preformed vitamin A can. Excess vitamin A may cause the D3 not to do its job and lead to MBD.

    Since my dragons only get exposed to UVB from UVB tube lights, I dust with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month too. D3 FROM SUPPLEMENTS can build up in the system too...so don't overdo it.

    Exposure to sunlight or UVB lights allows the dragon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its diet. (UVB light/sunlight should not pass through glass or plastic.) Appropriate temperatures allows for good digestion which allows the nutrients to be absorbed from the dragon's gut.

    With good husbandry your dragons could be with you for over 10 years!
     
  14. Wookie

    Wookie Well-Known Member

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    growing beardies need lots more calcium. crickets can have a calcium to phosphorus ratio upto 1:12 so need a lot of calcium to make a difference. UVB tubes are so much lower output than the natural sun light the extra d3 will be required too.

    5x Calcium 2x Vits a week is a much better preportion in my opinion for a beardie < 1 year old. As already mentioned Repcal is best if you can get it
     
  15. kinyonga

    kinyonga Member

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    Like I said..my dragon that died lived to be over 10 with dusting the way I indicated. I raised him from the time he was two weeks old. He never had anything wrong with him in his whole life.
     
  16. Drache613

    Drache613 Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    Hello,

    We recommend the supplementation the way we do simply because the average caretaker of bearded dragons are not advanced keepers & do not provide the greatest lighting or they don't take their dragons outside. This covers the bases & helps to prevent MBD. If you tell a beginner not to supplement, it will certainly give too much room for husbandry problems to begin. That is another reason I require people to change their flourescent bulbs every 4 or 5 months. Then, maybe they will get changed by the time they are 6 or 7 months when they are barely putting anything out.
    You are advanced & give proper lighting which makes up for not supplementing calcium or D3 very often.
    Sometimes though, you can do everything right, & a dragon will still pass away from cancer or some other genetic defect which was no one's fault.
    I am glad that you have had good success with some of your dragons.

    Tracie
     
  17. finn

    finn Embryo

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    15
    RE: Hello

    just wonderin, as far as 'taking them out'.. :
    having an outside habitat is not an option for me, and I would like to take him/her out once its older (have yet to get it actually). I've seen various 'leashes/harnesses' for dragons and such but i'm VERY skeptical on the idea. What's the general consensus on using these products for bearded dragons? personally i kind find it horrifying, but if there's nothing wrong with them that would ease that a bit. So, whats the deal with bearded dragon harnesses?
     
  18. DarkNation

    DarkNation New Member

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    95
    RE: Hello

    yes they are pooping now, atleast once to twice a day. They seem to only want to eat about 15 crickets each a day tho but i offer more. My one dragon tho seems to be scared of his reflection on the glass. i find him running away from it quite often, is this stressful on my dragon?? he keps ducking and weaving trying to get away.
     
  19. ChristyBug

    ChristyBug Member

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    589
    RE: Hello

    I would try feeding them in a separate container and throw in some crickets and see how many they eat in a 10-15 minute period and then try again later in the day and again about 2 hours before lights out. You may see they eat more than you expect when allowed to eat in a separate container.

    Bella was spooked by her reflection the first time she saw it on the glass as well. They will get used to it, one thing you may want to do is cover the back of the tank to minimize reflection.

    Hope this helps!

    Christy
     
  20. kephy

    kephy Moderator

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    Re: RE: Hello

    I personally haven't ever used one, so you can take this with a grain of salt.... but...

    From my time here on the forums I have known a lot of people who used harnesses and the worst I've ever heard happening is that the dragon simply didn't take to it. Other than that, I've never heard about any injuries or the like. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    I've heard many more stories of people who lost their dragon because it wasn't on a harness, they are very fast runners! It could be standing perfectly still one moment, you blink, and it's gone! So if you aren't going to keep it in an outdoor enclosure, I would think keeping it on a harness is the next best thing. If you start training it to wear one early on, hopefully it won't have any objections to wearing it later.
     
  21. artpac2004

    artpac2004 New Member

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    63
    RE: Re: RE: Hello

    I have a harness for my dragon. I adopted him and i dont think he was handled much, so is somewhat skiddish at times. Like the 2nd day i had him i took him out, set him down, and kept an eye on him, he sit there and basked for a minute, and the nest thing i know, he darted off, luckily just under a parked car so i could get him out. I got him a harness then, and anytime we go outside, he wears it, for his safety. I dont want him sittin on my shoulder then jumping off, so i make sure to keep the harness on and very little slack on it. I've heard of some reptiles nottakin well to harnesses, but my beardie, i just put it on him and it seemed as though he didn't mind. Hope this helps
     
  22. DarkNation

    DarkNation New Member

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    95
    RE: Re: RE: Hello

    so you suggest perhaps taking one out of the tank when i feed them then put the unfedone back in the tank and take out my fed one?
     
  23. DarkNation

    DarkNation New Member

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    RE: Re: RE: Hello

    also i want to buy a 16"x16" ceramic tile is it ok to lay some calci sand down and place the tile ontop of it, there will be a .5 inch gap on all sides tho where there will be sand
     
  24. Tux

    Tux Well-Known Member

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    RE: Re: RE: Hello

    calci sand is the worst possible thing to put anywhere in the tank. Why such a gap?
     
  25. Wookie

    Wookie Well-Known Member

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    1,234
    RE: Re: RE: Hello

    you can put paper towel underneath, the tiles will help pin it down to prevent crix getting underneath. I put repti-carpet underneath, but deliberately leave bigger gaps to mix the substrate up a little.
     

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