kingsnake poops out whole mouse! help!

Discussion in 'Other Colubrids' started by malcontent, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. cynthia

    cynthia Embryo

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    My 8 year old albino king snake is also doing this. 2 weeks of throwing up his live rat pinkies. I feed him large pinkies to try to get his weight up.
    I get the rats from the East Bay vivarium, so they must be good.
    Two weeks ago, I fed him three and one was partially digested, last week I fed him one and it was half digested.
    I use a heat lamp, large water bowl and linen liner for the terrarium.
    I don't handle him after he eats, and I even moved his terrarium up high so the cats wont frighten him. :D
    He has been to the vet three times for this (he did it once this summer, I tohught it was because it got too hot)
    The vet said it was probably nothing and without expensive testing, just watch the temperature and dont handle him after he eats. I just cant image he is getting enough nutrition.
    Its so sad, he has always been a good eater and healthy.
    Help!
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. SatanicIntention

    SatanicIntention New Member

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    Wideglide, I just wanted to let ya'll know that it is a common myth that snakes can get parasites from rodents. As a vet tech and knowing my parasitology from front to back, I know that it isn't possible for a snake to get parasites from a feeder rodent. Parasites are species specific, meaning they can only live in that specific animal. Plus, the parasites in the intestines of the rodents aren't in the right stage of development to infect any other animal. Most parasites go through stages of molting, usually 3 stages. An example would be giving one dog a blood transfusion where the blood donor is a dog with heartworms. It's impossible for the dog receiving the transfusion to get the heartworms because they aren't in the infective stage. They are only infective when the dog gets bitten by a mosquito, and the heartworm larva migrates through the dog's tissues to get to it's final destination.

    Just hoping I clear that up a bit. If anyone has any questions pertaining to this, let me know, I will gladly answer them.

    Cynthia, has anything changed in his enclosure, environment, etc? Since he's 8 years old, it could be a plethora of things. Has he done this before, when he was younger? Has he had a fecal test to check and see if he has parasites? Regurgitation is a very stressful event to a snake. Their body is not made to handle such things, and their esophagus gets torn up in the process. What are his temps and how are you measuring them? If there is a possibility that you can use an undertank heater(a human heating pad WITHOUT AUTO SHUTOFF will work)? He may not be getting enough belly heat and may not be able to get warm enough to digest the prey item. If you fed him a week ago, and it got regurgitated, I would wait another two weeks before offering another prey item to give him time to heal. I wouldn't handle him unless necessary, so as to reduce stress as much as possible. Also, how many hides does he have? Should have, at a minimum, two of them, one on each side of the enclosure.

    Here are some things to do if you can: Give him two weeks to recoup, limit handling to only necessary(cage cleaning only), try the heating pad and measure the temps with a digital thermometer(WalMart is a good source-in outdoor thermometer section). In two weeks, offer one prey item, maybe one rat fuzzy, and see if he keeps it down. The next week, do the same thing. If he keeps it down, then you can increase his prey size. Since he is 8 years old, I can probably conclude that he is a pretty big boy. Try feeding him the same size prey as he is big around at his widest point.

    Hope this helps a bit, and please let us know how things go. Good luck with everything. :D
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. cynthia

    cynthia Embryo

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    When he did this in the summer. He was in the same terrarium he had lived in for several years. Which made my vet think it was the heat. So he gave him a vitamin injection. But then I moved and bought him a terrarium.

    Then he did it again about two months ago. Which made me take him back to the vet, who had no answers. He examined his mouth and gave him another vitamin injection.

     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's a little more complicated than that. What you're saying is a snake cannot be a dead end host for a parasite with an indirect life cycle where the intermediate host may very well be a mammal. If humans can get infected with roundworms that came from a turtle how do you explain that?
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. SatanicIntention

    SatanicIntention New Member

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    We get infected with things like that because we get feces on our hands and don't wash them. Later on, we don't realize that we didn't wash our hands, and our fingers have been in our mouths, causing us to ingest fecal material, thus resulting in a pinworm/roundworm/tapeworm infection. Turtle parasites "can" live in us, but it's not their desired environment. The parasite usually doesn't reproduce as well, if at all.

    Snakes can be born with parasites, get them from ingesting fecal material/parasite eggs on the fur of a rodent(they have poo on their feet all of the time), or can get them when they are kept in dirty conditions. Some parasites that they have are actually snake parasites, but some may not be. The snake may have just picked them up from any of the reasons I mentioned above.

    I have asked my teacher, who is a vet of small and exotic animals, if this can occur, and he said no. I can confer with him on this matter more in depth if you would like. This is an interesting subject for me. You can say I love poo :)

    Cynthia, how is your king doing? I just read that the temps were 80, but you're measuring with an analog thermometer. If you can, try and get a digital thermometer, I believe they run about $7 from WalMart/Target/maybe even try Lowe's/Home Depot. If you can get his warm side temps up to about 90, but not over, then I would say he's alot better off. The warm side can be about 88-90, and the cool side can be around 75, no less than 70 degrees though. The higher temps should help him heal faster, and when he starts eating again, he will be able to digest alot more efficiently. :) Good luck again, and definately keep us informed on the little cutie. I love Kings, they have such feisty personalities :D
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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  12. gadd19

    gadd19 Member

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    my guess is that the mouse was still internaly frozen.......all i do is put hot water in a ziplock baggy and put a mouse in it fro about 10 min.....try that..good luck, and keep us updated
     
  13. cynthia

    cynthia Embryo

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    Hi! I know this is a delayed response but I just wanted to thank you all and let my know my King is FINE :) It turns out that feeding him smaller food and waiting longer in-between feeding got his eating back to normal. I first gave him one pinky every two weeks until his digestion was back on track. Then I slowly increased the food size. He still only eats two fuzzies every two weeks, but I guess he is just a small snake. It was more a matter of resisting the urge to feed him when he looked hungry. And resisting the urge to feed him food that I "thought" he should be eating given his age.
     
  14. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear he's okay now!!
     
  15. PythonStriker67

    PythonStriker67 New Member

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    Are you in a cold state? i alway heard california king snakes are north american snakes & require no speciall heating or lighting i mean you can have a strip like on it but in the summer id never recommend a heat light of any kind honestly i have had king snakes off & on several time as i do now & even breed them before & had a clutch of eggs after i sold the pair i never ever once except in the winter here in ohio did i ever use a heat lamp or anything other then a strip light so that could be a problem as well id seek a vet to be safe tho thanks striker
     
  16. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    Really that doesn't matter at all unless you live in a house with no air conditioning or heating. I mean if the temp outside is 82 and that's where the snake lives that's just fine but I'm not keeping my apt. at 82 and the snake's in my apt. with me so I definitely need a heat source. See where I'm coming from?
     
  17. Keyatra

    Keyatra Embryo

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    Wait you said that the tank is 75-85 in the whole tank, There should be a col side and a warm side, mayby I just understood wrong. Also are you giving your snake a place to hide? Have you tryed to cover the sides of the tank while feeding, some will eat then see some one and reg.If you cover the sides of the tank you may want to leave it that was for a good couple hours or the rest of the day or night. If you dont have a hide put in a empty paper towl role or a couple toliet paper roles. My snakeloves them.
     
  18. PythonStriker67

    PythonStriker67 New Member

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    Its not pooping out a complete mouse at all its in fact...Regurgitating it it sometimes happens when you over feed or when food is to larger for the snake also..thanks good luck Striker
     
  19. cynthia

    cynthia Embryo

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    You guys, I'm gutted to tell you my Kingsnake just died.

    His last shed was normal and be even bit my boyfriend last time I changed his terrarium. He had a great grasp as if he wanted to feed and seemed better than ever.

    Yesterday he wouldn't eat and he was very docile.

    I came home today and he was dead.

    I am saddened because I really loved my albino Kingsnake Luna. He had the prettiest yellow crown markings on his head and yellow racing stripes down his side. I had him since he was small enough to fit all curled up in my hand.

    [/img]
     
  20. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    Awe, I'm so sorry you lost him. You did every thing you could to help him out. Sounds like it was just his time to go.
     

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