My leopard lizard Raptor

Discussion in 'General Lizards' started by SS79, Mar 16, 2007.

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  1. plmarsg8

    plmarsg8 Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen the picture but some users become offended when a herp is seen eating another herp. This forum is called reptilerooms because members on here want to enjoy reptiles and not see them being gobbled up by another lizard.
    Interesting, Comparing a snake to a lizard. Snakes usually have a limited variation of prey items. Lizards on the other hand have a wide variety of feeder insects available. Why would you feed your lizard another lizard in the first place? Aren't there any other prey items that your lizard can eat or do you just want to see your yours hunt down something that is not an invertebrate?
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. MBK_KID

    MBK_KID Member

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    Also I found the specis of lizard offending because people here keep anoles as pets and don't want to see such a picture of it being killed.

    I don't find pictures of snakes eating rodents offensive but I do when I see them eating lizards. With snakes it is often the only thing they eat but with that lizard you can feed it crickets, locusts, mealworms, silkworms, superworms, phenix worms etc.

    Azza
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. 00luke00

    00luke00 Well-Known Member

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    wrigley, i haven't recieved the PM you sent.

    Without censorship, these forums would be a mess. Cheri, and some of the moderating team have decided that these pictures we are talking about are deemed to be unsuitable for the forums.

    Yes, it is clear to me. Be that does not mean that pictures need to be posted of a lizard biting on a live anoles neck.

    We are not allowing snake feeding pictures either anymore.

    Like i said before, if you can't see that censorship is needed, then it's upto you whether you remain a user of this forum.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. cooljerk

    cooljerk Embryo

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    To be frank, plmarsg8... until you have caught and studied, cared for, nursed to health or otherwise tended to the needs of a leopard lizard, you should not speak of things of which you obviously have no experience.

    Leopard lizards eat other lizards. That's a fact of nature. Lizards are a part of their healthy and varied diet. Moths, butterflies, crickets, grasshoppers, pinkies, mealworms, kingworms, cicadas, clover blossoms, fence lizards, side-blotched lizards, zebra-tailed lizards, desert spiny lizards, whiptails, small snakes... ALL are part of a leopard lizard's natural (i.e. in the wild) diet. Even hatchling leopard lizards.

    Whether or not Wrigley's photo upset people is neither here nor there. I'm much more upset by your post, plmarsg8, that you would question the suitability of feeding a lizard to a leopard lizard. Crack open even the most mundane field guide and you'll see it right there in black and white. Stebbins: "Feeds on insects, spiders, lizards...." Audubon: "It frequently eats smaller lizards." Cochran and Goin: "...they are apparently more apt to prey on other, smaller lizards." Hobart M. Smith: "Many authors have observed that other lizards are frequently eaten; this species is actually one of the most cannibalistic known in this country."

    Further, it's upsetting that novice leopard lizard caretakers are likely reading this very thread who might get the wrong idea from your "Why would you feed your lizard another lizard in the first place?" comment. Answer: "Because it's a vital part of their healthy diet, that's why."

    I have caught, kept and released scores of leopard lizards over the past 25 years (I have two right now) and ensure their health by replicating their natural diets. In the wild, they eat lizards... so in captivity, they eat lizards. When I am unable to catch side-blotched or western fence lizards in the wild, I go to the local pet store and buy anoles or house geckos. These lizards provide a wealth of vitamins, minerals, proteins and other nutrients that a diet of crickets and mealworms lacks.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. MBK_KID

    MBK_KID Member

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    I don't mind lizards eating each other but that picture was very graphic and I would of made it PG13+ atleast because younger members (like myself) don't want to be seeing an Anole (that people on this forum keep as pets) being bitten on the neck visciously by a larger lizard. I feel if you had of posted that in the anole forum more people would agree with me.
    Feed your lizards anything you want but that picture was not needed.

    How would you like it if I showed a picture of a dog mauling a leopard lizard?

    Azza
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. 00luke00

    00luke00 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting, because i can think of a whole bunch of species which eat differently in captivity.. Most lizards eat insects in captivity, the wouldn't in the wild, and most snakes eat things they definately wouldn't find in the wild.

    I'm not saying the can't or shouldn't eat lizards, but they would do fine, without them too. The problem that would deter me, from feeding any live lizard, (apart from the fact it's illegal over here) is the bunch of parasites a WC anole is likely to be carrying. I don't think it's worth the risk of the leopard lizard getting parasites passed down from the anole.

    Anyway, back to the picture. You may feel that it is part of nature, that they eat other lizards, and i am not going to disagree with that. Graphical pictures, though, will not be allowed, as they do upset some other members. Not just the younger members but some of the adults too. Especially those who keep the lizards which are being fed, as pets, on this site.
     
  12. plmarsg8

    plmarsg8 Well-Known Member

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    Like Luke said, most lizards eat a different diet than they do in captivity. You yourself included some alternatives to feeding a reptile. Im sure that only a a handful of lizards that are commonly sold to us feed on house crickets. I do understand that other lizards are part of its natural diet but many lizards such as collard lizards and even a few chameleon species are known to consume other lizard species in the wild. Does that mean that we want to replicate their diet with fence lizards and side blotched lizards?

    And I don't want to go back on my word but don't Most kingsnakes eat other snakes? Im sure that most people with cobras or kingsnakes do not throw in a few rattlesnakes or mambas just to replicate their natural diet. Even some amphibians are capable of eating snakes and reptiles. Although that is what they eat in the wild, that in not usually what we feed them.
     
  13. wrigley

    wrigley New Member

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    Let me start off by saying that i have been keeping lizards, snakes and a variety of other critters for over 30 years. I enjoy them immensely. I do not enjoy the killing of any species but on occasion it is a necessary thing. I grew up watching Wild Kingdom and even though I love zebras, gazelles and giraffes I did not turn the channel when I saw a lion pride take one down and devour it because I knew that was how nature worked. I'm sure a lion could live on hamburger or any other meat that you find acceptable but would that be the best thing for it? Probably not. I don't think you are doing anyone a favor by removing such pictures and using Disney type settings. I believe you are doing your forum members a disservice. When someone comes and asks a question "why is my leopard lizard dying or not eating?" it is most likely because they are feeding it nothing but crickets. While it can survive for a while on such a diet, it will not thrive and probably won't live as long as one given a more natural diet. The picture was only graphic to a narrow mind. To a more open mind and one that wants to learn the proper care and keeping of such a lizard it would've been more educational. I'm sorry to all the members that were offended by that picture. I can only say that if you are keeping or would like to keep lizards in captivity then it would be best for that animal to find out what the diet is that it would prefer the most to thrive and reproduce and to try to recreate that. Leopard lizards do not eat anoles in the wild because there are none where they live but they do eat other small lizards so I try to duplicate that the best way i can in Nebraska. I realize some of you keep anoles and find that offensive but you'd be better off thinking about the animal you chose to bring into your house and keep in a cage because if it could tell you what it wanted or needed to eat lizards would be at the top of that list. It's just a fact of life. The picture was not meant to shock or offend anyone. I was merely showing how happy Larry was to have some real food finally after a long winter's rest. If you could have seen that for what it was this argument wouldn't have even begun.
     
  14. MBK_KID

    MBK_KID Member

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    Ok I am going to leave this thread alone before I get even more angry.

    p.s Wrigley didn't you say: "will not remain a member of this forum. " ?

    Azza
     
  15. papercut

    papercut Member

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    not to start anything else but I agree with wrigley. I understood the fact that the picture wasn't meant to offend. I didn't see anything wrong with it it was just a lizard enjoying its meal.

    but I also understand where MBK_KID is coming from. there are kids on this site and parents might not like their kids looking at such a picture, BUT thats no reason to overreact about it by saying that its wrong its just a reptile eating nothing more nothing less not meant to offend anyone at all.

    and the "p.s." part of MBK_KID's post thats a little offensive to wrigley. and I personally wouldn't like to see wrigley leave these forums because they are one of the few people that know about leopard lizards.

    and with that being said I think this should be locked before it gets really personal
     
  16. 00luke00

    00luke00 Well-Known Member

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    I am fully aware that wrigley's picture was not posted to offend, or cause any arguments. I am also aware of the immense amount of knowledge that she has with these particular species.

    However, the photo concerned, was not deemed suitable for this site. It was against the rules, and those are what we need to enforce. I'm not going to repeat, over and over, the reasons for the picture removal, as i'm sure you're all getting bored by now.

    wrigley, please check your PM :)

    And i'm going to lock this, before things get out of hands.
     
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