New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

just got him today...he is a baby, hatchling, varanus salvator..looks about 12" long, nice n healthy...been hiding for most of the day..only comes out when i leave the room..when i come in and he sees me he automatically burrows underneath the aspen shavings (that seems to be his new hide place..that and the hide). I mist the shavings once or twice a day to keep it moist, since i wont use topsoil until he's a few months old (would prob weigh down the cage too much). Can i take him out n rub his head/neck, play with him a lil...to get him used to me? Or should i wait a bit longer? I was told to start feeding him the day after i get him..so ill wait for 2morrow on that..
thanks ;0)

 

You just lost a monitor through carelessness a week ago, don't you think it would be wise to find out where it is before replacing it?

 

i tried looking for 4-5 days straight...he was really small to begin with so i didnt have much luck...i tried placing a few rodents out by unfortunately the dog ate them, (i saw her go at 1-i dunno why, they were raw)...id try the tinfoil but the dog walks around so much anyway she'd walk over it a ton of times. I looked with the flashlight under ALL furniture, appliances, wiggled clothes to see if he was in/on them....looked in crevices around furnitiure, tv, in the bathroom closet (like 8-10 times), it's almost like it disappearned so I can't say I didnt try to look for it...i did everything I possibly could. It's about 70 in my house anyway so i doubt he'd of made it very long. I DID try to be careful though...i reptile proofed my bathroom like i said but regardless...he still went under my door which was maybe 1/4 of an inch tall which i figured was impossible for it to get under plus i saw him trying to get under it unseccessfully so i didnt put a magazine under that. He must have kept tryin n tryin when i was taking a shower...pretty much shocked the hell out of me. But anywhoo i learned no matter how much u lizard proof an area, there are always ways they can get out unless it's 100% impossible, they seem to use all the tricks in the book to escape. But yeah I wont be letting this guy run around anywhere without any supervision until he's 3-4 feet long (w/out supervision only in a bathroom or reptile proofed small room). Cut me some slack, this could have happened to alot of (careful) people =)

 

honestly, not being mean, you shouldn't have got a water moniter. water moniter are one of the hardest to take care of, most expensice pet lizards and they get HUGE. they are definitely NOT a beginner monitor. did you research them at all before you bought him?? do you know what you're in for?? again, im not trying to be mean, just informative.

 

Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

Sorry, bud, not going to cut you any slack. Careful people wouldn't let a tiny monitor loose while they are off having a shower. Also, most people would actually feel very badly about being responsible for the (probably slow, agonising) death of an animal. Your main concern in your other posts was that it would show up after you got a replacement.

As for it not living for a fair while, you're in for a big shock. The 70F temperature means it'll be able to go without food and water for a long period, so there's a very good chance it'll just show up one day.

I lost a tiny Varanus brevicauda (smallest monitor species in the world) hatchling in February. It managed to scale the litter dam of its enclosure by walking through its water dish and sticking to the wall (it was tiny enough to do this), then squeeze between the sliding glass panes and disappear. Even though there was no way I could have predicted this, I felt incredibly badly for being responsible for its disappearance and likely death. It was only 4.5 cm (less than two inches) total length.

Even though I had little to no hope of it surviving, I kept its enclosure set up as is, just in case.

Much to my surprise, it showed up three months later (a couple of weeks ago). Dehydrated, skinny, but alive. I nurtured it back to health and now it is back into its enclosure and doing very well.


All of that aside, what are you doing with a water monitor, considering what a newbie you are? Have you any idea how large they get and the sort of room sized enclosures they need as adults?

 

I have looked at this forum for a while and have not been posting much in the last month or so. What I see should not surprise me since it happens so often, but just when you think you see it all, there is more!

This is what I have seen in the few weeks that I have not looked at this forum:
1) You post that your monitor is not eating. This is an indication that something is seriously wrong with how you are taking care of the monitor (your husbandry)!
2) You post that you lost your monitor through negligence, leaving the monitor unattended outside of its enclosure and on top of everything else, you have a dog (a predator) running around in the area where it is lost. Your lost monitor very likely became a "scooby snack" (really responsible!)
3) Next you get a monitor that is obviously way above your experience level and your ability to keep (by evidence of your previous two posts or do you have a 2 meter X 4 meter X 2 meter high enclosure being built that will maintain a 70% average humidity and proper temperatures with swimming facilities, powerful lighting systems for basking and raising a chicken farm/starting a large rat breeding colony for when it is full grown?).

Where does it end? I sincerely hope not in the slow agonizing death of another poor monitor lizard!

Michael

 

Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

not being mean either...but...hardest why? because theyre large? that doesnt bother me i have a 6 foot iguana that is the tamest thing in the world because ive put alot into him the last 10 yrs and Im condident I can tame this one just as well since he's just a baby. And yes ive researched them, I read daniel bennet's book on savannah monitors that gives a nice description of general care for monitors in general as well, and i research all 50 diff types of monitor lizards and different attributes of each one on numerous websites. I differentiated the pros and cons of savannahs..niles...water monitors (sulfurs, salvators..etc), achies...tree monitors...croc monitors (not my pick)...and many others, researched their eating habits, their habitats they should live in, in captivity, misting, temp recommendations, humidity, behavior, you name it ive looked at it. Im really into this and yes for the long run...i have a 30 gallon tank i have him in currently with aspen shavings 2 inches took, 2 digi temp guages on both sides near the bottom, an infared temp gun, a humidity guage in there, and i mist inside once daily, have a feed/water bowl n hide in there for him...feed him daily, a log that goes diagonolly across the tank to include a basking area near the top, ceramic heater in the top corner i turn on at night with a mesh screen on top so he wont burn himself, couple thin rock;s so he can climb onto the log, or use it as a hige spot to hide under, it's a great mini enclosure, when i put him in my spare room ill try to create a similiar type of enclosure using the space provided, scaled to that large size with some work (its about 10 feet long by 10 feet wide, 10 feet tall,... big enough? if he gets over 7 feet ill use my garage, i have my own place... and...as well as a 150 gallon tank that's not in use he will go in when he gets about 18 inches in length (half the length of his current enclosure), when he reaches 3-4 feet ill take him out of the 150 gal and give him my extra ROOM i have partially set up for him ALREADY incase anyone was ignorant enough not to ask that posted above. I may be new to monitors but i did do a fair amount of research, but ive been around and handling reptiles for the last decade or so (im 25). And yes OF COURSE i feel badly for loosing the baby savannah...just because i didnt say that (in type) doesnt mean i didnt feel it...I have a heart too, otherwise i wouldnt get one. FYI im a current nursing student and i have several certifications in personal training, so i like taking of people and the same obviously goes for pets, they give me a sense of satisfaction, and just because i bought a new monitor doesnt mean i totally gave up on the savannah, im still looking around for him daily, I still have little pieces of turkey I put out, some dead crickets, etc (the dog doesnt eat the crickets so i leave those out near crevices). So if you want to think I just dont care about him being lost and I rushed into it too fast, great, think that...im still confident I can handle the situation responsibility, and im man enough to admit not closing off the bathroom while taking a shower was irresponsible, i should have eliminated all the possibilities of him being able to get out.

would you "experts" just relax and chill? And possibly concentrate on the initial question? LOL...I appreciate the concern, I sincerely do, and the expertise you bring to the board is much appreciated again, but, so far, the deed is done and there's only so much I can do now and arguing and lecturing me isnt going to change that situation! LOL.

Like i said i respect your concern...but as i asked...in YOUR opinion, would you wait on handling the water monitor for a few days n let him get used to his enclosure? Just feed him his food daily to get him used to you? And FYI i still am definately looking for the savannah, like i said previously, hopefully he will show up, im keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks..

 

Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

Hmm...

First of all you're telling us that you've done stacks of research into the pros and cons on each and every monitor species so you knew which one to get and consequently were really 'into' water monitors. Just last week you must have been 'into' savannahs, because you had just bought one, then lost it.

Secondly, for all of your 'research' into the care and husbandry of monitors you still have your monitor housed in an aquarium with a screen top and are using aspen shavings for substrate. duh.

You also clearly didn't research the bit where you don't force handle monitors to get them calm around people, you leave them alone.

There's your answer.

 

RE: Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

correct...incase youve done no research, and not read many care sheets on monitors, baby monitors CAN be put into 30gal tanks with aspen shavings...after a few months they should be put into topsoil since it holds humidity better...duh...
im not tryin to be mean dude, but if you think im not the one who's done research, i think youre in for a huge suprise..

The savannah was my first choice for convenience since i could obtain it in a store YES...but either way I was going to obtain a water monitor regardless in the near future which is also true as well...i may obtain another one after more research in the future but right now i dont think that's necessary because im still trying to find my current savannah, duh...

and as for force handling..thats why i ASKED here initially be4 i did it myself, i knew i didnt have that expertise so i asked since its a forum and i actually did NOT find that on the several care sheets ive looked at on popular forums for reptiles, so...grow up, it was just a question and a GOOD one to ask at that, i feel many agree with me, i care about my water monitor and if you have one, you shouldnt be a know it all and think you have all the answers, i think its okay to ask something if youre not sure on it..
if you dont have anything positive to add to this thread, just read it and then move on

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him?

Anyone that relies on online caresheets for their research is not only a newbie, but an extremely naive one. Those caresheets are written by other newbies that are around as experienced as you are. That's why they suggest tanks with screen tops and aspen shavings.

duh.

The 'research' that I've done on monitors is to breed my pair several times and raise a shi_load of hatchlings. The results of my 'research' were that aquaria with screen tops suck for baby monitors and wood shavings are best suited for hamsters.

Fantastic reason to get a particular monitor, especially after all of your 'research' into which species is best suited for you. This reasoning was reflected in the speed with which you replaced it when it went missing.

Good thing they're disposable, because you can just go to the store and buy a replacement! Onya!

Oh, that old chestnut. Sorry, when I see people treating wild caught animals like disposable playthings, I react and post. Deal with it.

The forum moderators may tell me this isn't in line with their code of ethics, but I'll always react the same way when I see this sort of behaviour.

The fact remains that you bought a savannah, lost it through carelessness, then replaced it with another monitor a week later.

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: New 1st Water Monitor...can i handle him

You're trying to win..i get it...and this solves what exactly? Do you feel superior now? As for your last comment, that was commented on by me above, im not going to repeat myself nor do i feel i need to waste anymore time on your sensitivity issues, that's YOUR own business and or perogative. If the mods see this, mind deleting this thread? This guy kinda messed it up for me, it should have been directed towards the initial question at bay. Thanks guys!! =)

 

This isn't about winning or losing, it's about proper care of the animal. Here you go, I'll give you advice that will beat all of those caresheets:

1. Build yourself a wooden enclosure with a sliding glass front, basking lights inside, vents 2/3 of the way down the sides or back. No vents on top. Seal the wood with 2 part epoxy. Use the aquarium for your fish.

2. Set up the basking light at one end to produce a basking spot of around 120f, with the cool end of the tank no warmer than 80F.

3. Get some dirt and fill the bottom of the enclosure with dirt and add a layer of leaf litter. Put plenty of flat or curved pieces of bark and/or wood around the place so the monitor can crawl underneath. Use the aspen shavings for your hamsters.

4. Do not take the lizard out and let it wander around while you're having a shower.

5. Do not take the lizard out. Leave it alone. It is tiny and terrified. Do not bother it until it is bigger and bolder, then wait until it starts approaching you before you start handling it.

There you go. You can either take my advice or prove that you've 'won' by ignoring it and lose yet another monitor (by escape or by death).

If you don't believe me about the use of an aquarium for monitors being a bad way to start, here's another thread on another forum saying the same thing:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1092104,1092764

 

Nah it's cool..this is what I was trying to get at..some helpful info. But i do appreciate it. Honestly..thanks bro. I have it in a 30gal tank sure...but if it's only going to be in there a month or 6 weeks before i transport him to the 125 gal tank is there really a need to invest the time to make a wooden one? Ill read the article at the bottom though..if it's really that important, ill make a wooden one. I really dont mind opening the top to put the food in...its a tiny inconvenience..but it's not a big deal really. As for taking him out of the cage...yep! I learned my lesson on that one (knocks himself on head). Ill give that a month or 2. For now ill just let him watch me do my thang in my room, maybe occasionally slowly put my hand in, pet his head for 30-45 secs (he already let's me do this, then slowly crawls away), then leave him alone, is that okay at least?. Ill try the topsoil approach as you stated...it does seem like it'd keep the inside of the enclosure more humid and is easier than constantly misting the darn thing when it has aspen shavings in it. What's the point of the middle layer of leaf litter? Also what's leaf litter? dried leaves? I do have a big long log in there that he can climb up, so he can bask near the top near the end of the cage near the basking lamp...which i clocked at around 130 degrees at the surface temp of that with my temp gun. Would u recommend misting it every other day or so once i add topsoil? Or is that already enough? Ill have a humidity guage in there so i can always go by that to id assume. Anyways i do appreciate the info. Thanks.

 

I read that small article at the bottom of your last post..interesting..but doesnt explain why a wooden enclosure is better. BUT...i do believe when making an enclosure for your final water monitor, a wooden closure is a good idea, saves money as well...Ill probably end up doing that if i do decide to put him in the garage and make an enclosure out of wood there (for sure). When i lives back up in chicago and my iguana was around 2 yrs old and getting pretty large..i made a really big wooden enclosure for him...with plexiglass sides so you can look it. Of course the frame was wooden made, but the sides and certain areas were chicken barbed wire. It was fascinating now that i remember 4 yrs back...suck that i had to take it apart when i moved...grr. Was about 6 feet tall by 4 feet deep, 6 feet long. The whole ordeal cost a bit..but probably 1/5th of what itd cost to make customized by someone else. And thats just for 1 iguana LOL. When and if i do this for the monitor it'll prob be twice as big (long) in the garage, or ill just give it my spare room (if he's nice to me)..LOL.

 

The advantages of a wooden enclosure over an aquarium has nothing to do with having to lift the lid to feed your lizard.

The main reason a wooden enclosure is better than an aquarium is this: You can't put vents in the sides of a glass aquarium, which means you end up putting vents at the top, or have a screen lid (as most people do). Monitors need a hot basking spot, which heats the air. Hot air rises. With the opening on the top, the hot air rises and draws the humidity up with it, drying out the enclosure. Before long the monitor gets dehydrated - whichi can be a real issue with a small monitor. Unlike a glass tank, you can build a wooden enclosure so that there are no openings at the top. Combine that with the soil, leaf-litter combination and you'll find you have to mist the enclosure far less often.

Wood is a far better heat insulator than glass, too.

Leaf litter is just the dry leaves you find on the forest floor (or on your lawn if you have the right trees in your yard). It covers the soil and functions in a few ways: 1. acts like mulch to keep the soil humid 2. gives the baby monitor something else to hide in 3. makes the enclosure look more natural and prettier


When you transfer your monitor from the small aquarium to a larger, 125 gallon aquarium, the aquarium problem just follows you. It's still an aquarium.


The bits of wood I suggested you put in have nothing to do with climbing (although a climbing branch is also a good thing). Baby monitors need a choice of many hiding spots. They're terrified of everything.

As far as the monitor moving slowly away when you pet it, that may not be an indication of it getting used to you. I have had a lot of baby lace monitors and if I catch any of them out in the open, they'll sit where they are and watch me. It isn't that they aren't afraid, they are terrified. Instinct tells them not to bolt for their hide spots, though, as the predator (me) will see them and know where they are. Consequently, they freeze on the spot until I turn away, then they bolt. If I reach in before I turn away, I can pet them and you'd think they are calm as anything. That's extremely stressful for them.

 

Interesting info...seems to make perfect sense...ill just leave him alone and watch him for awhile till he gets a little bigger i guess...i switched it over to topsoil this evening so he should like that...about a couple inches deep. Yup i agree on the hiding spots...besides his half log, i have two pieces of thin rock laying against the thick branch that goes diagonolly across the cage that he can hide in as well (he seems to make use of them sometimes). As for letting the humidity out issue...ill try covering part of the tank top (the side he doesnt go on as much), to help keep humidity in. Ill mist it when needed..probably a small misting daily if it looks like its needed. The topsoil bottom looks more natural...glad i think it...will possibly add some worms next time i hit up the pet shop

 

I sense that you are resisting the idea of the wooden enclosure, so I'll elaborate on why glass aquaria don't work:

Imagine that you have a bucket in which you want to hold water. If that bucket had a screen bottom it wouldn't hold any water at all - that's a given. But what if only half of the bottom was screen? Would it hold the water any better, or would it slow the flow of water only fractionally? Clearly the latter. How about if only 1/4 of the top was screen? 1/8? Water would still leak out at a fast rate.


Now imagine your enclosure as that bucket, but turned upside down, since warm, humid air rises (rather than following the downward pull of gravity, as water does). Will a screen lid hold in the humidity? No. Will half a screen lid hold in humidity? No. Will quarter of a screen lid hold in the humidity? No. You don't need me to go on.

Constantly having to mist the enclosure is a band aid reaction to a poorly designed setup. It will make the air humid for a very small fraction of the day, after which the humidity will just rise up and out. Keeping the enclosure wet, to reduce the number of times you have to mist, will result in your monitor developing skin issues. They need humid air, not wet substrate.

It's not my monitor, but if it were me I'd get my hand drill out, buy some wood and build a small enclosure.

I had a tank for my very first baby monitor, set it up before I actually got the animal and had it back at the store within two days. It lost heat and the substrate dried out. I set up a wooden enclosure and haven't looked back. The first one was bought, but later versions were all built by me after learning the pros and cons of the one I bought. I've been able to compare my home built enclosures with the first wooden one I bought and can tell you that even a tiny opening on top is too much.

 

I like the analogy you added in there...helped to make sense of it. Glad you put it out there...others reading this will get something outta it too if they didnt know this before. Would a plastic or glass top work? (so the light will get through). And possiblly...use an instrument to construct/drill my own holes into the glass cage near the bottom for ventilation? I understand your reasoning for a wooden enclosure and i think it makes valid sense...just would hate making a whole new setup...but look at my above idea..tell me what ya think. I jsut think if this can do the job, that's cool..because he'll only be in this enclosure for 4-6 weeks be4 i move him into a bigger one...

Today i cut up one pinkie into 4 pieces and put it in a bowl...he didnt seem to want any. I did change his substrate over to topsoil though so i do think that did stress him out quite a bit..he was pretty jumpy going from one side of the cage to another, a few times. I didnt want to take him out though because he looked pretty frightened, i did leave his hide in though so he could hide while i changed the substrate. I put in 5 crickets this evening, doesnt seem he went for any...just goes n hides, then comes out a bit later n usually basks on the log to get warm. Ive never once seen him drink his water..maybe he does it when im not around...no idea on that 1. He does look pretty thin though..thin neck, body doesnt look horrible but thin like yesterday. Legs n arms look a little frail...i can see the bone structure kinda...is that normal?? I dont see much muscle with those legs/arms...yet he still can move fast if he wants it seems, and is quite alert, very aware n active, skin tone n color look perfect. Then again he is a small baby, so not sure what to think, but he does seem stressed. Now that i changed over to topsoil i should be able to keep accurate count of the crickets/insects he eats since they cant really hide now (like be4 in the shavings..they could). Is his behavior thus far normal? Hopefully he eats soon..ill update what he does tomorrow (tuesday)...i just gotta get this guy to start eating and ill feel a little more at ease...

 

After 4-6 weeks, is your monitor moving into another aquarium? You mentioned a 125 gallon above. If so, the same problems will still be there. If you have glass or plastic over the top of your aquarium, you will not be able to get your basking spot hot enough (and the plastic will melt). If you intend on building it a proper enclosure in 4-6 weeks, then just make sure its conditions are okay until then.

If the crickets can't hide in your current set up, then the monitor doesn't have enough hides, either. If you're lifting the hides to count the crickets, you're going to stress your monitor out of eating them. What good does it do counting the crickets, what do you plan to do if it doesn't eat enough anyway?

The best advice I can give to you to get your monitor to eat is to step away from that enclosure and leave the lizard alone. Make sure it has plenty of hide spots all over the enclosure, leave some choices of food in there with it and go away. Watch TV, play computer games, study. Just stop scrutinising the lizard, you'll just stress it out more. Don't lift its hide spots to check up on it, for all that will do is give it the message that its hide spots aren't secure, which will just be more stress.

 

crocdoc that was sme great advice, with the bucket. i aplaud you lol. I see i have a few small repairs to make as well. thanks