Hi everyone, I'm new to the board. We have a juvie Bearded Dragon named Mario. We recently moved him from a 10 gallon tank to a 40 gallon breeder tank that I got on sale at Petco. I'm having trouble getting the correct temperatures in the new tank. I bought two digital thermometers and I'm getting around 85 degrees in his basking area and 75 on the cool side. Something isn't working. The tank is a converted fish tank, I've covered the bottom with reptile carpet and he has rocks and logs to bask on. Lights are: ReptiSun 10.0 UVB 18" 15 watts T8. It's not more than 12" from Mario, but there is a mesh screen between him and the light bulb. Basking lamp is Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp 100 w. There is also mesh between him and this lamp. Both lights sit on top of the tank, on the mesh screen. I've covered some of the mesh with tinfoil in an effort to try and heat up the tank more. He is eating and pooping on a regular basis, so he's obviously digesting - but I'm just worried that we aren't at the right temps yet. The other people I've been communicating with are all in the UK and their "vivariums" are much different than what I seem to be able to find here in the US. I'll post a picture of the set up and if anyone has ideas, or could point me to a thread that would help, I'd appreciate it! Sarah
Welcome aboard! = ) Sometimes, particularly this time of year, it can just be difficult to attain the proper temperatures with a single lamp (or a single 100watt lamp). Unfortunately, these big screen topped enclosures can make things difficult too - you aren't the only one who encounters this issue from time to time. You have a few options to further increase temperature, here are just couple of simple suggestions: 1) Replace the current bulb with a similar wattage halogen bulb. These bulbs produce a greater amount of heat than other bulbs, so you may try experimenting with different wattages until you find a comfortable basking spot of 100-105 degrees F (just make sure the fixture can support the wattage). 2) Replace the bulb with a higher wattage bulb - just be sure that the fixture can support the wattage. If it cannot, you would have to get a higher capacity lamp fixture in addition to the new bulb (or try bulbs that maximize heat in their wattage use, like the halogen mentioned in suggestion #1). 3) Use a second fixture to add supplemental heat. Keep in mind that the light bulb on the basking area can be a simple household incandescent bulb, or any regular bulb sold at local hardware or home improvement stores. Little note from personal observation, the "clear" incandescents do get hotter than the "frosted" ones. The heat producing bulbs at the pet stores are essentially the same thing, but cost a pretty penny more ; ) What IS different from the pet stores and local home improvement stores is the UVB producing bulbs. You have that covered with the ReptiSun 10.0, and these do need to be specifically purchased from a reptile-specific company. Because you have this appropriately installed, the heat producing bulb can be any basic bulb you would use at home...be it a household incandescent, halogen, mercury vapor, etc...though any style flourescent bulb would not work because these produce incredibly minute amounts of heat. While I'm on the topic of the UVB producing bulb - the one you have is an excellent choice. The 10.0 is one of the best (if not THE best) flourescent UVB producing bulb on the market. My only slight recommendation is to allow the dragon to get just a few inches closer... while the dragon is likely receiving adequate UVB from this bulb, the screen mesh can cut it by nearly half. Most UVB meter testings on bulbs are done without any interference and recommend that animals be allowed to get within 12" of the bulb - I know Cheri Smith and a few others have experimeted with using bulbs under 1/8" and 1/4" screen grating and found it reduced UVB output fairly significantly...probably not enough to really cause issues at the recommended distances considering most people use screen tops with these bulbs and never run into issues, but it couldn't hurt to give them that extra couple inches = ) Alright, I'll end with the novel there as I venture from the meat of your question, lol. Welcome to the forums MariosMom! Hope that helped some, and hope you enjoy the site! Your setup is lovely and I can tell you've done your research, always good to having loving owners aboard! PS - I realize that some of things mentioned you may know through research; I just like to be as thorough as possible "just in case" and for those members and guests viewing the thread with similar questions. Also...these vivariums you speak of: are you talking about plastic, PVC, or melamine style caging that has front opening glass/acylic doors? If so, I can direct you to a couple of sources in the US that sell this style caging.
Jeff, Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a thorough response. I really appreciate it. I was corresponding with some other owners in the UK via Facebook, and they were trying to be helpful, but with the time difference and sometimes language barrier, it was difficult to communicate. I appreciate that you've seen this type of set up before, and can give some suggestions on how to deal with it. I'm going to get crickets tomorrow, so I'm going to look at a different bulb (sounds like I don't even need one from the pet store - maybe I'll try the halogen idea), and/or another fixture. A couple follow up questions (hope you don't mind, I just want to take advantage while I have someone knowledgeable on the line : - Is there a way to take the UV bulb out of the hood and mount it inside the tank? Someone in the UK talked about using command hooks to hang them inside the tank, but I wasn't sure how to do that with the hood we have. Is this a better/worse option than setting it on top of the mesh? - I am talking about these types of vivariums http://www.amazon.co.uk/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=pets&field-keywords=Vivexotic. I don't know if they would help with my heat problem - seems like maybe? Because they are more enclosed? We are not DIYers here - not thinking we're going to build one ourselves. It also seems like this might be a nice solution because you don't have to move the lights every time to get him out! And clean...etc... - What are your thoughts on the under tank heating pads that stick to the bottom of the tank? Someone on the UK board said that they can burn the dragon's belly and that they can't feel them anyway? - Is there an average number of crickets he should be eating at a time? The recommendations seem so vague on this. I've seen Mario take down 60 in a sitting! Is this normal for a juvenile? - Last thing - do many dragon owners get pet insurance? If so, where from? Thanks again. I really appreciate your help. If you want to respond to these over time, that's totally fine. Sarah
No problem! Glad to help = ) Quick question: You are from the US, right? I am going to gear answers toward you being in the US but will include some limited UK knowledge I have just in case within the responses if that will help you. You are right about the heat bulb not having to be from a pet store - you will just overpay there for it. The key is that the UV source DOES have to come from a reptile supply company or pet store, but since you have that covered the heat bulb can be a cheapy incandescent from the store for less than a buck or a halogen from the store for a buck or two. A lot of the pet store "heat bulbs" that don't produce UVB are easy ways for the store to make cash - package up a halogen bulb and sell it as a high heat glow basking bulb and put a $10 price tag on it. It would indeed be a better option, though I personally do not know of a method to go about doing it. I can browese around, and we can hope that another member who might be viewing this thread might have some ideas. Your beardie will be fine with it for now, but to maximize the potential of the bulb (especially as it ages) you will want pure direct space for the dragon to come into contact with the UVB. Those are excellent cages! In fact, all of my herps have cages that open from the front. It makes things so much more convenient, and they look much better. Flipping that darn screen over and having to moving everything just to access the cage contents in aquariums does get very annoying with time... Here's a site in the US that sells a cheaper version made of plastic or PVC... generally you can find cages like this made of PVC, plastic, or melamine at lower prices and the cutom made hardwood enclosures that look fancy are on the pricier end. I'm not familiar with cage manufaturers in the UK, but you can look around for these kinds of caging. The one's you linked to look great though, if you can afford the appropriate size for an adult beardie and you like em, I'd go for it. http://showcasecages.com <-- similar to those you posted I think, but located in the US. EX: http://dragons4you.com/Cages.html or http://repti-racks.com I could drag out a couple of other sites with some quick searching if you are interested in these caging options. The under tank heaters aren't a good item for beardies; just as the member from the UK board mentioned, beardies do not sense belly heat well and they can cause burns (although an actual burn is more likely to result from misuse of the product, where the animal can come into direct contact with it). Beardies are sun loving, basking reptiles. The more light you can provide the better, so its best to allow the heat sources be from a bulb. The beardie's pineal gland is actually located immediately atop their head, which has been dubbed their "third eye" that makes them particularly aware of wavelengths of light. Perfectly normal! Young dragons are bottomless pits; you should be feeding 2-3 insect meals a day, each meal being as many as the dragon can consume in a sitting. Average daily counts can vary anywhere from 40-100+ crickets a day of appropriate size. He should also be getting introduced to salad and fed a salad every morning (which I see you are doing by the picture). But don't worry there is relief from this feeding machine. As beardies approach adulthood and become adult dragons their metabolism shifts drastically. They no longer need all that protein and caloric intake for growth, and overfeeding can lead to the onset of issues like Fatty Liver Disease. Once he reaches adulthood (only takes a year or less for most beardies fed properly) he will be on a primarily vegetarian diet (~80%). Salad will consititue the bulk of his food intake, and he will only need a eat a few bug servings a week = ) If it is costing you an arm and a leg to buy bugs from the store, you can order them online for much cheaper. You can often get crickets for just a couple of cents a piece shipping included sent straight to your door! Here's one website I've done business with in the past (US): http://premiumcrickets.com . I know others have liked Ghanns or Armstrong Crickets, and there are a variety of other options to choose from. The only UK source I can think of off the top of my head is "Livefoods.co.uk" . There are also varieties of other feeder bugs you can use as staples, like Silkworms or Roaches. Roaches (tropical species that will not infest your home) like Blaptica dubia are excellent because they can create a colony to amass an infinite supply of food for the beardie for its entire life... and they don't smell, chirp, jump, etc like crickets. Let us know if you want more info on feeder options and I can elaborate in more extensive detail about types and sources, etc. = ) Might want to chat with some friends in the UK about online bug sources for the best pricing and quality, but generally this is a much more cost effective route to feeding a baby beardie. I actually don't have pet insurance for my animals - I've seen it advertized in a couple of pet stores though. Sorry, I'm not really sure lol. Maybe someone else can chime in with info?? This could be something that is also more commonly practiced in the UK than the US.
Sorry for the confusion on where I am. I'm in Portland, OR. I found that Bearded Dragons UK facebook page and was asking for a lot of help there. They had a hard time helping me because our equipment was so different. I really appreciate all of the responses!! About the roaches - I'm pretty squeamish about them - what do you keep them in? Cricket keeper type thing? I am sure I'd probably get used to it. I've had to get used to crickets and worms. And I'm training my kids to do the feeding so eventually I won't have to. I got some waxworms today - those are ok in moderation, right? Sounds like it's better to do superworms or calciworms? Thanks! Sarah
Prepare for some literature Sarah! It's a lot of reading, but you will find the following articles and sites most helpful in your quest for ultimate bearded dragon knowledge = ) http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html <-- Bookmark this one. A good list of how to designate food items in the salad (and insects) as either staple feeders, things to mix in occasionally, rarely, or never. Some other information on the site in general (UVB testing page, for example) is also interesting. http://www.reptilerooms.com/index.php?categoryid=17 <-- This is out Bearded Dragon article database (ReptileRooms is out mother site). The majority of these were written by Cheri Smith, our founder and a bearded dragon care and research fanatic. Cheri has made some serious breakthroughs in proper beared dragon husbandry and has contributed greatly to the proper care methods most of us follow today. And finally: Check out all of the "Sticky" threads at the top of our Bearded Dragon forum listing that are highlighted in blue. You'll find most of the topics (mostly by Cheri as well) very interesting. One I think you will enjoy is the "feeder insects for bearded dragons and why" topic: http://www.reptileboards.com/forums/bearded-dragons.15/ ^^ All good reads for a rainy day. Tons of great information in those locations to learn just about anything about beardies = ) Now, to your specific questions... I want to note that I did not add these literature sources as a means to avoid answering your questions. I just wanted to provide them as a resource for you. Feel free to continue asking ANYTHING you wish here, we love answering and helping you out! Regardless of what your questions or concerns may be! Both calciworms and superworms are decent feeders to mix things up - calciworms are a little better on the nutritional aspect and have softer, easier to digest bodies (these are also called "phoenix worms" and are the grubs of the black soldier fly). They decent staple feeder items, but aren't practical due to their small size and cost. Superworms are a great snack item - you can feed a few superworms here and there as beardies love them and their shell actually inhibits some fat absorption (they are a higher fat food item, so this helps their cause a little). Probably the best feeders are as follows, best to worst: Silkworms - Roaches - Crickets - Solder Grubs - Hornworms -Superworms - Waxworms - Mealworms. Availability/Cost factored in: Roaches - Expensive at first, but its an investment. They also need heat but once accomodated can literally allow you to "breed and be freed" from having to buy other staple feeders. Crickets - Available everywhere cheap, but annoying feeders. Silkworms (expensive, must be ordered online, need special food and heat) Superworms - Very available, reasonable price, easy to care for but kind of fatty and a chitanous shell. Soldier Grubs - Small, expensive. Waxworms - Balls of fat, a RARE treat. Mealworms - High fat and phosphorous backed by a poor meat:shell ratio that has a chitanous shell. Feed rarely or never. Butter/Trevo worms are also a treat item that can sometimes be found, but they are very pricey too. The key though, is variety. While I feed primarily roaches - I mix the diet up from time to time with silkworms, superworms...even crickets. The salad items allow for more diversity in variety, but giving different bugs as treats here and there can mix up the palate and provide additional macro and micronutrients. http://mulberryfarms.com is a good silkworm source if this is something that interests you as well, their cups are convenient for treats because it contains the food and worms already in it to make things hassle-free. Roaches: These guys are actually a 2nd hobby of mine that branched off from keeping reptiles and using them as feeders. I now keep a variety both for feeder purposes and for collecting. A lot of the species actually don't look that "roachy" and make handling very tolerable. All you need is the following: -Plastic bin with smooth sides, an opaque storage bin is ideal -Fine screen mesh - you'll cut a whole in the lid for ventilation and apply this overtop so air can come in, bugs can't come out. You can apply it with packing tape or use other means (I'm being as simple as possible in this quick post) -Egg flats, paper towel rolls, "cardboard" drink carriers from fast food joints to act as hiding structures and give surface area to house many roaches. -Food - dry gutload, there are a variety of kinds available for crickets or you can use quality dog/cat food, baby cereals, fish flakes, etc. -Moisture/Hydration source - Water crystals, and any salad items starting to turn or stalks from greens and veggies that would otherwise go to waste when preparing bearded dragon salads! You'll see that, this same setup is how one can rear crickets, Thats because roaches can be kept EXACTLY like crickets and thrive, but they need one additional thing to breed (afterall, these are slower growing tropical species that will NOT infest your home) -Heat. You'll want to buy either a UTH or Heat Tape to attain higher temperatures in the bin to encourage breeding. Generally temps around 90-95 degrees on the surface are sufficient. Add roaches and give them time to colonize and voila! Never ending food source. Acceptable species include: Blaptica dubia, Eublaberus posticus (orange head roach), Discoid roach, Blaberus hybrids, and Turkistan roach/Red runners (Blatta lateralis). I wrote up an extensive roach information article here: http://www.reptileboards.com/threads/how-to-keep-and-breed-roaches-extensive.64560/ Keep in mind, I wrote that article as a detailed information source. Roaches are so EASY to care for, even easier than crickets once you have the setup. I just went into a lot of detail in that thread, hence the insane length.
Showcase cages are fantastic as are dragons4you. I have a few dragons4you but saw showcase cages in a show.
Jeff gave great links for pvc cages. I use both tanks and pvc cages with screen tops , nothing beats pvc cages as far as holding heat . What I need a 60 watt bulb for in a glass tank, I get the same temperature in a pvc cage , same dimensions for roughly half the watts. They are expensive and I won't buy them without screen tops thus limited to where I can buy them from but when it comes to holding heat. Nothing compares to them. You can hold heat bit better in a tank by using styrofoam sheets behind the tank taped behind the background and your tinfoil idea works . http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Pro-Series-Granite-Acrylic-Cages also has nice cages with screen tops but again everything is more expensive than glass and shipping is a horror but if you look around at clasifieds ,etc you might find a place that carries them in your area. This is my 6 yr old ,38 inch long and 18 wide dragons4you cage .
