New to leopard geckos and have some questions

Hi,

So my girlfriend is wanting a leopard gecko, and before we go out and buy anything we have some questions. We have been reading care sheets and they all seem to say different things which is a little coonfusing. First off, what should the temps be for the hot and cool side ? For the hot side I have read anywhere from 82-92F and 70-80F for the cool side, there seems to be a big gap in temps so I'm a little un sure. We would also be keeping it in my room and I like it to be cold when I sleep so I have an air conditioner that is rightt now set to 68F. Its not on in the winter but my room still gets kind of cold. How can I keep the tank temps up at night ? Would I just leave the heat lamp on with a red bulb or something ? Also What is better to use for heating the heat lamp or UTH ? And how do I regulate the temps ? I know I need a thermometer is there any recomended kinds to use and should I get 2 one for the hot side and one for the cool side ? What are some good recomended substrates besides paper towel ? If we take the leopard gecko out of the tank for feeding is sand ok or still not recomended ? For the humid hide can you buy them at the pet stores and put the vermiculite in them or do you have to make them ? And my last questions are what do I do with the crickets when its not feeding time ? do I just keep them in one of those criter keeper things ? And all the gut loading cricket food and cricket dusting powder and calcium supplement that always stay in the tank can be bought at any pet store right are there any recomended brands for those ?
Sorry this is so long.
Thanks,
LNK.

 

http://www.reptilerooms.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63508 the best caresheet i have read and it was made by members on this forum

i just keep my crickets in a large critter keeper when they arent being used. and i still would not recomend sand. if you keep your leo on sand you are risking its health for no really reason other that what you think looks best. i recomend tile since you can make it look natural, its easy to clean and very cheap. with sand you need to change it out at least once a month and that money can really ad up. really thouhg anything that cant fit into their mouths will make a good substrate. im thinking about buying a bit of fluffy carpet for one of my tanks, and ive got fleece in another.

and there are humid hides you can buy but i find it easier just to make them myself since you can make thme look however you want.

 

Great Questions =)

I think you will find most of the answers to those in this caresheet:
http://www.reptilerooms.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63508

But...to answer your questions specifically:

The warm end should be roughly 88-92, then the cool end should be about ambient room temp. With your room being a bit on the chillier side, I'd try to keep it around 70-75. The enclosure will probably enable this anyway since your heating unit will probably effect the cool side just enough to bump the temps up to that range for you. I wouldn't worry about the cool side quite as much as keeping the warm end nice and toasty.

Night time temps are not an issue. You could run a UTH on 24/7 if you like or even a red bulb, but you will find that most keepers prefer the UTH. It enables the leo to better digest prey since the heat is coming from the bottom, straight to the tummy (and you may often notice you leo hugging the bottom for this warmth). If you choose not to run the heating element all day every day, you can put it on a timer for 12-14 hours a day then just allow the entire enclosure to cool down to room temp. It's natural for them to experience nighttime cooling and they can actually take pretty low temps as long as it heats back up during the day. The heat energy they get and store during the day is what they utilize for their metabolism.

Thermometer. Get a good quality digital thermometer with a probe or a tempgun. I would only worry about the warm side as I mentioned earlier. You will also want a good thermostat to use with you UTH if you get one to monitor temps.

Non-adhesive shelf liner and tiles are both excellent substrates that are non-particulates...meaning they are perfectly safe and you will not encounter any issues with impaction or the leo eating any of it. Shelf liner is cheap, and it actually looks really nice. I've used it for years and you can usually find good brown stuff that makes the enclosure look pretty legit and get the "rubbery" kind of shelf liner.

You can use washed and screened playground sand for you leo if your careful, but only if he is an adult and you are careful about it. You also can feed him outside of his enclosure, but there's no guarantee that he will actually eat...and a new gecko will already be stressed out enough with the move to where he may not eat at all for a few days. You can try it out, and this would be a safer bet with sand, but there are no guarantees. I would play it safe and use a non-particulate substrate since it will be less hassle to clean, is cheaper and safer, and IMO actually looks better.

Humid hide can be anything that has a solid top to it and an entrance that will allow the leo to get into into it. Place it preferably on the warmer end in order to allow its purpose to actually take place easier (being humid). You can just use paper towel, sphagnum moss, or coco fiber in the humid hide and spray it every so often to keep things nice and...humid.

You will be keeping insects in separate containers; like the critter keeper for example. You will come to find that often with keeping reptiles, you end up spending more time on care for the feeder than the pet itself =). They should be fed dark leafy greens and veggies for moisture (no need for a water dish or anything special for water) and a dry gutload that has lots of goodies in it for your leo to benefit from. Think of the cricket or feeder as a pouch that needs to be filled with lots of nutrients that your leo needs to benefit from it. There are recipes on the internet that you can look up or buy, and some of the ones from pet stores are okay...although you will probably find with crappy companies like Flukers that the ingredient list is essentially the same as chick mash.

Crickets are a pain, I won't lie to you. You can also feed mealworms, superworms, silkworms, phoenix worms, and various species of feeder roaches (dubia, discoid, latteralis) to you leo as staples.

For multivitamin and calcium supplements, I HIGHLY recommend going with the Rep-Cal line of products. They sell straight calcium, calcium with D3, and a multivitamin that, in my opinion, are second to none.

Hmm...did I miss anything?

EDIT:
**Sorry shanna, I believe I was just beginning to type my response right before you sent your out! =) I guess it better shows the validity of the caresheet though if both of us recommended it.

 

Thanks for the replys, this is alot of help. I do have a few more questions though. Where do you get the shelf liner ? can I just go to home depot or something like that. Also what size of UTH should I get for a 20gal long tank ? For feeder insects are the roaches less of a pain to care for than crickets ? Also with the vitamins is the pure calcium the stuff that goes in the little dish thats always in the tank and the D3 and multivitamin is what gets dusted on the insects ? And how often should the feeders be dusted ? The caresheet you have recomended says once a week for young leos and twice a month for adults but I have read other places that they should have the insects dusted every other feeding.

 

Yea, you can get the shelf liner at places like home depot, target, wal-mart, any place like that. It's usually only about $4 for a roll the size you need, and when it comes time to thoroughly clean the enclosure you can either just replace it or throw it in the washer.

Where do you live? Unfortunately roaches are illegal to keep in the state of Florida. Roaches are WAY less of a pain than crickets, although your going to need to give them a slightly more specialized setup and its going to cost a little more to get started with them. The species that you will want to keep are tropical, like Blaptica dubia, false death heads, and the turkistan roach (blatta laterallis). They are very expensive to start off (typically about 50 cents an insect) and it may take a few months to get an established colony to feed out of, but I think it's well worth it. Once you get them started you will never have to buy crickets again =) and you may only need to buy a few supers, silks or mealies here and there to add some variety. Also, they need heat as well to keep them breeding, so they too will either need a UTH or heat tape to keep them warm. I can provide some links to suppliers and more info on care and breeding if your interested in this option for feeding. Roaches are also more nutritious than crickets, have a better meat to shell ratio, and they CANT jump! Crickets can get pretty annoying because they smell, escape, chrip, etc while roaches are practically maintenance free and do not smell.

HOWEVER: if your only feeding one herp crickets aren't too much hassle. I go through thousands of bugs regularly, so that many crickets is a little more annoying to me =). It may not be worth it to invest in a huge colony of roaches for only one leo.

The pure calcium carbonate is what you keep in the enclosure in a small dish or lid. I would dust using the multivitamin and the D3 calcium powder. Multivitamin supplement should be dusted once a week for juvies and once every other week for adults, but the calcium powder shall be dusted more regularly, like every other feeding. I think thats where the confusion is.

As for the UTH size, I honestly couldn't tell you because I've never used one. I use heat tape for my racks and bulbs for my sun lovers. Run to the store or check out listings for a reptile show near you and get some measurements on the aquarium size. The UTH should just be large enough to cover 1/3 - 1/2 of the bottom of the enclosure, and if I can think correctly...a 20 gallon long is 30 x 12 x 12 inches? That means you need a UTH that is roughly 15 x 12 or slightly smaller. I would imagine they have sizes on the package but I could be wrong, maybe someone else could elaborate more on this.

 

get the UTH by zoomed, they are the best in my opinion and they are measured for you, it says right on the packaging what size tank they are good for.

jef i would love it if you could post up some links to roach care, as soon as my fiance and i move in together im breeding roaches and would love to know what im doing lol in the meantime though i need to get over my fear of them, but anything for the health of my babies.

and im going to second that crickets are a pain. i hate them and only get them once a month at most just to add variaety to my guys' meals. i recomend superworms and mealworms. supers are better but are too bit for younger leos. plus they are easy to care for and to breed and are usually always avaliable.

 

You'll get over the "ick" factor pretty quick, at first the big adult dubia or discoids can be a little intimidating, but after you tough it out once or twice and let them crawl around you it gets to be completely natural to snoop em up. The laterallis are actually kind of nasty looking little buggers, but they are a little quicker to breed, tend to be cheaper, and even the adults are more appropriate size for leos (where discoids can get to be practically half the length of your leo). Honestly, once you have them in your hand and crawling on you its not so bad, especially when you just think that they won't be jumping away and getting into your walls to chip all night and keep you up =) haha

I just recently got rid of a LOT of feeders. I probably could have given away some pairs and nymphs of those species to you but I thinned it out pretty good to hold me over the next few months =/ just a little late I guess

As for information on keeping/breeding and places to buy, I would take a look at these sites:

http://nyworms.com/roaches.htm

http://aaronpauling.com/

http://theroachranch.com/

http://blaberus.com/

http://dubiaroachguide.blogspot.com/

The bottom link is excellent for dubia info, and the other sites tend to have pretty good care info and breeding info. I believe nyworms has most of the species that make for good feeders and basic care to go along with them, while sites like aaronpauling and theroachranch have quality bugs at the lowest prices I've seen. You can also sometimes bag good deals from those with surplus roaches in classifieds like kingsnake.

Just to throw it out there, the three species of roach I typically list are my personal favorites. Lobster roaches I have heard make excellent feeders as well and are pretty prolific and cheaper, but I really don't like that they are a climbing species. None of the roaches you can buy as feeders will be able to infest your home...I would even go as far to say that your home will be more likely to be overrun by keeping crickets than by any of these roach species.

Hope that helps some =)

 

ive only ever heard of using dubias as feeders but i havent done much research into roaches yet. i dont mind big bugs, but i dont want to get large roaches because i have nothing to feed them to. and the problem is getitng me to hold one. at the moment i scream whenever i see one. but i guess if i can let rats lick my face and take food from my mouth then i can hold a roach

do they bite at all? because if not then maybe i could get one of the larger species and give the larger ones to the rat boys

and thanks so much for the links

im still finding crickets around my house that im sure are from last month, its amazing what they can escape through. although if im not careful then the same thing happens with superworms because they chew through those little cups. i was cleaning up my room and scrubbing down the rat cage today and throwing aways alot of their old toys and i found a superworm container with a big hole in it that i guess i put there and forgot about and even found a few loose supers in my room. one was even crawling on my eye primer, im still using the primer though because it cost $20 for a tiny thing of it and frankly i love the stuff lol

 

They don't bite, none of them do. Although the adults do have tiny "spikes" I guess that they use to better grip onto things. They arent sharp or anything and wont hurt your herp, but if your not familiar with it then it may catch you by surprise. It's sort of like the exaggerated version of a crickets footing or their back legs, sometimes you can kind of feel it when you hold one, but a roaches you will most definitely feel.

Dubia are actually kind of...cute. The nymphs sort of look like rollie pollies, and discoids kind of fall into that category a little bit too. I wouldn't necessarily recommend looking at their faces or underside so much though, as they go from being relatively cute and rollie pollie like to alien face creature LOL. Actually, the reason you've probably only heard of dubia is because they are most keepers favorites (they're mine at least). They breed relatively quickly, I could probably teach a broomstick how to tell the males and females apart, and they scurry around enough to be visually stimulating to herps; but are still a slower species to make them easy prey and when being handled are usually relatively calm.

Yea, I know that feeling...I lost about 250 crickets or so from a shipment last month and I still hear them every day in my walls where I can't get them. Bastards...haha

LNK, please feel free to but in with any other questions. This is your thread afterall =) I don't mean to go somewhat off topic with the roaches. Do you know where you and your girlfriend may be getting your leo?

 

Hey, Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately roaches are out of the question. I live in BC Canada and apparently roaches are illegal to keep in canada. Not sure why I don't think they could survive the winter if they did escape. So I would have to have crickets and meal worms. I don't think we would have to many crickets seeing as we would only have 1 maybe 2 geckos. I found a guy who has two 5 month old females he is willing to sell for 40$ They look nice in the pictures he sent so we might go with that. Would 2 geckos be kind of overwhelming for someone who has had reptiles before ? The guy who is selling the pair said I would only have to add extra hides so they could each have one to be in, and make sure the hot side is big enough for both of them when they are adults. I went to my local pet store today to look at prices of hides and stuff They had the shelf liner stuff and it was pretty cheap which is nice. But I have a question about the hides, do you know those ones that are shaped like a rock with a hole in the top then hollow inside I think you can also take the lid off. Would those be good for leopard geckos ? The hole looks like it would be too small for them to fit in. Also what are good brands of thermometers and thermostats to get ? Do you have to buy them specialy or can you get them at home depot ?

 

you never even have to set foot in a pets store for your setup if you dont want to. home depot will have everything you need.

and for 2 females i would get a 40gal with 6 hides, 2 warm, 2 cool, and 2 humid. sounds like this guy may know his stuff about leo care, probably a good person to buy from

and caring for 2 leos isnt that bad at all. they dont require much of your time, just maybe 15min at most each day for one or 2 if your a neat freak. im always sanitizing after i clean up poo each day but you dont have to be that extensive. ive got 5 and they really dont take up much of my time compared to most of the other animals i keep.


and cute is not a word i think ill ever use to describe a roach lol

 

What do you use to clean the tank ? Do you just wipe up the poop and then once a week to a big clean of the entire tank ? Are there any limitations to handling them ? I know you should wait a week or two after you get them to let them settle in before you start handling them but other than that can you handle them at anytime ? Also for feeding is it better to feed them at night seeing as they are nocturnal or does it matter ?

 

for feeding i prefer to do it at night but it really doesnt matter, its mostly up to your leo, some will be picky while others will act like you starve them and want food all the time

for cleaning i use soap and water each day to clean up the poop, each week i clean my substrate, wash the fleece and wipe down the tile, and once a month i take everything down and wipe it all with bleach wipes and wipe it down with water after that. you dont have to go all out like i do. you can just pick up the poo every few days and do a deep clean once a month. i prefer to take the poo out everyday because i dont like the look of it.

and far as holding them 15 min every day is fine but it depends on the leo, i have some that seem to like comming out of the cage and chilling on my bed while i read and i have others that refuse to come out of the tank at all so i dont bother holding them. if your willing to put forth the effort though then it should be rare to have a leo that hates being held that much. the one i have who likes comming out i would spend hours with each week and would feed her right after being held so she would think good things will come if she puts up with being held.

 

As for the thermometer and thermostat: A good digital thermometer with a probe can be purchased from a home depot or something, no specific brands there but the probe allows for a specific measurement in a designated area. Tempguns are also very accurate and useful, as you only need to aim and click the button and you get an instant reading, although you will probably have to order one and it may be a little more expensive.
http://tempgun.com/

As for thermostat, I use the BAH 1000 from Big Apple Herp, but they changed the design and made it a little fancier and more expensive. http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat I think most of the thermostats will do the job though, because they support the wattage intended for them, then your UTH will plug into the thermostat then into your outlet. A probe will be on the thermostat that will determine the temperature of the UTH or wherever you place it, then it will shut the UTH off for you once it reaches the max temp you set it to and turn it back on at a set point. You can always test the accuracy of the thermostat after you get it with your thermometer, just see if it kicks the heating element off once its supposed to based on the temperatures of both.

I know thats probably pretty confusing to understand, hopefully you can dissect that =)

 

Ok I think I understand that. I should have 2 probes then one for the thermometer and one for the thermostat. Should the probe be planced on the ground anywhere on the hot side or in the hide itself ? Because wouldnt inside of the hide be hotter because the hot air gets traped in there ? I've also read that lamp dimmers work well for regulating temps. Is that true or would it be better to go with the actual thermostat ?

 

I think a lamp dimmer (rheostat) will work perfectly fine as well, you would play around with the dimming switch until the temperatures are where you want them in the enclosure based on readings from your thermometer. So, for example: you want it to be 90 degrees on the hot side and you have your thermometer with probe there, the UTH has been on for a while and you have the dimmer set at about the half way point and it only read 85 degrees...you will want to bump the dimmer switch up just slightly more to provide a little extra heat for it to hit the temp you want. Then, unlike a thermostat that heats and shuts off constantly, the dimmer will stay on and hopefully keep it at that designated temperature range you were looking for and set it to because it limits the voltage that the UTH will utilize. But keep an eye on temps with your thermometer just to make sure everything is going smoothly (especially after a power outage).

You don't necessarily need the thermostat probe in the enclosure, reason being the probes typically do not reach very far. It would probably be best to have it in there, or taped against the glass or something, but you might just want to put it on part of the UTH. I would keep it on the UTH and have your thermometer in the cage, then play around with the setting again if thats the case. If it's not actually in the enclosure with the thermometer probe, you will need to do some trial and error and math...like if it read 100 on the UTH and the warm end read 90 on your thermometer, you will want to set your thermostat to 100 while its on the UTH.

It's a lot harder to explain that it really is =) you'll figure it out once you get going

I would put your probe in the middle of the hot end, or at the hottest point

 

Just a note about the zoomed UTH specified for a 20L.

That's what I got and I wish it was a tad bigger. I chose the one it said for the tank, and it wasn't the smallest, either, as they had a few lined up. I bought the tank and the mat at the same time, but did not check the mat dimensions to the tank, and I wish I had and gotten the next size up, even tho the one I got is for a 20L.

 

the next size up is just slightly too big. i use the ones they say to use and have never had an issue with them because of their size, as long as the gecko can fit on the thing i think its fine, but it can make heating up 2 hides a bit difficult so it it a bit limiting.

 

ok now im confused. Should I go bigger or stick with the UTH that says for the 20 gallon ? We will probably need to heat 2 hides. I have a question about the feeders. Can the main diet of leo's be meal worms and the other types of worms like the superworms instead of crickets ? I would think meal worms would be easier to keep and less stinky and noisy. How annoying is it to keep crickets like smell and sound wise, would it be something that could easily be kept, say without parents knowing ?

 

Out of curiosity what are the morphs of these two ? The guy sent me these pictures and I asked him and he said he thinks they are tremper albinos but hes not sure.