New to leopard geckos and have some questions

Ok so we brought the leo's home last night! They both really did not like to be touched one was even hissing. My girlfriend held one and her hands were freezing so he clamed right down but the other one was a pain and hard to get into the tank. One is a little fatter than the other, what are some good ways to fatten the other one up and make sure they are both getting enough food ?

I did manage to find the calcium! Went to big als, its a fish store but they also have reptiles and some reptile stuff. I got repcal calcium with no d3 or phosphorus. They had one leo there which im pretty sure was dead it was laying there not moving or anything no water and maybe about the thickness of my pinky finger. I told the manager but he didnt really care, kinda sad.

Well the temp gun is kinda old, I think it was used for measuring the temps of some of the pipes in our house. It's a uei inf200 infrared thermometer. I will start going by the digital thermometer until I can find out how accurate it is. I will ask my dad if he knows how accurate it is

 

How much larger is the one leo to the other? Keep a very careful eye on them to make sure the larger one isn't bullying the smaller one in any way. Stresses of a new home and the stress of being bullied could result in a very ill gecko. I would wait a good week or more before attempting to handle them, I know you handled them to place them in the enclosure which is fine, but until they have settled or are beginning to feel comfortable with their new home (roaming around in the open and feeling secure) it would be best to let them settle in. You know this though, just driving the point home =)

Great news on the calcium! Sounds like you have everything in order... I had that powder ready to go in case you changed your mind or couldn't find something lol.

Feeding... I would offer food to each leo individually and with them settling in and being young, growing geckos I don't think it would be a bad idea to leave some worms in the food dish over the entire course of the night. Try getting them to eat by dropping worms or insects near/in front of them so you can actually observe it; but if they insist on being shy make sure a healthy supply is available to them so they can feast when ready. Ideally you will want to feed them each their entire food serving (as much as they want in a sitting) under your supervision so you KNOW that they are each eating adequately. But if this can't be done, leave a supply in there overnight to munch on.

Do keep in mind they may not touch anything for a few days and thats normal. And if they do eat their fill at a sitting under your watch you can still leave a couple of worms in the dish overnight just in case they want a midnight snack. Just remove them for gutloading the next morning.

Any pictures? Don't scare them for some or try to take them out but if they are active and you could snap a couple I'd love to see them! =)

 

Its not much larger, They are about the same length, just the one looks a little fatter. I will wait awhile before handling them. They actually have come out! They seem to walk around a bit then head back to the warm side hide. Or if I come in my room they run back to the hide. Can they see red light ? I have a head lamp that can give off red light. I was thinking I could use that to watch them it so it could still be dark.

Haha thanks for having the powder ready. You said that it was hard to get the powder to stick to the mealworms. Is that just for the pure calcium or is it for the d3 and multivitamin aswell ? What can I do to get it to stick better ?

For the temps, I read some reviews on the digital thermometer I have and found out that it can be pretty inacurate. Some peoples are acurate to +-1 degree like it says it should be and others are off by as much as 10 degrees.

I will try offering the mealworms to them individualy then. How often do they poop ? The guy said they were fed yesterday. But I dont see any poop inless its inside the hide. When I go out and buy the mealworms should I put some sort of gutload in with them right away or can I wait a few days ?

Sorry, I dont have any pictures yet. Im not much of a picture person, I dont even have a camera. My dad and girlfriend are both big on taking pictures so I'm sure I will have some soon. I think it would be hard to get pictures of them becuase they run to their hides when you come near the cage. My girlfriend has named them betty and veronica. Its taken me about 20 minutes to type this because they keep coming out and I want to see who it is and whenever I get off my chair to go look, they go back to the hide before I can see them.

 

They should not be able to see red light, I use it to view my crested geckos all the time. Some red bulbs are actually better quality while others seem to just be cheap and the geckos are affected by it. When you turn it on, observe these things to see if it's a good viewing bulb:

1) Does the gecko seem to notice the light? Do they recoil and hide away or squint/close their eyes as a reaction to it?

2) Check out the pupils. I've found that while a red bulb is in use the pupils tend to remain fairly dilated...suggesting it does not bother them in the sense of high visible light.

If those things check out then go for it! I've actually heard of some people using red Christmas lights (as it is getting near the season) to view with. No experience with it yet and I'm not sure how effective or good they are, but that may be an option for some users too lol.

Powder tends to stick significantly better to...well...just about anything other than mealworms and superworms =). I wouldn't be too concerned about it's sticking properties, a little bit goes a long way and you just want a light dusting over the insect so you should be just fine. If it seems like nothing wants to stay on there then you could dip a worm in some water and coat them but no guarantees the worm will live or the leo will want to eat it. I mainly had a problem with some very fine calcium citrate that didn't even want to leave residue on my hand if I pinched some up...most products should do the job just fine so no worries there =) light dusting is all that is required and you will have your dish in there too so your set

Interesting about that thermometer and good work looking into that! Hopefully you can find one that is more accurate to get your temps with...maybe the gun was actually correct the whole time.

The gutload for the mealworms should be their bedding, so as long as they arent in wood shavings they will be eating something at least (although who knows how nutritious it actually may be). Just throw in a carrot or any of the greens/veggies I mentioned earlier and that will supply water for them and further their nutritional content for the leo.

One nice thing about leos is they have a tendency of defecating in one place, almost like a litter box area. It makes clean up a breeze, although not all leos are like this it tends to be a little more common. The frequency of their poops depends on a number of things: what they ate and how much of it, temperatures, stress, frequency of feeding, etc. I'm trying to remember the rate at which mine went as a juvie...I feel like it was probably about every other day. As long as they are eating and active and aren't holding it for a week or more at a time you shouldn't have any worries.

Those are great names =) It is quite hard to resist interacting and watching a new herp as much as possible. Heck, even with herps you've had for years the effect is ever-lasting. After this post I'll probably go up to make sure Charlie is still tucked away in his baby blankets brumating the winter away...and I'm sure the cresties will be lined up around the food dish like they haven't been fed in weeks those little suckers put away more food than me

 

They ate! My girlfriend and I were both worried they wouldnt eat right away, but they ate no problem. I didnt even have to turn the lights off. Veronica(the skinny one) ate 39 mealworms and Betty( the fatter one) ate 42. The mealworms I got from the store were really really small, they were falling threw the sifter when the guy was counting them. So tommorrow im going to get some kingworms. Most of the mealworms are only about 2mm long or less.

I noticed that they both have diffrent eating styles. Betty will move around alot to get the food she was all over the cage. Where as Veronica would stay in her hide and sort of stare at the food and then quickly grab it and go back into the hide. There was a few times when there was a bit of a stand off for the mealworm and Veronica got it first. So I dont think she is being bullied. Betty just seems to be more active at hunting. I did have to put my hand in front of her because veronica was taking her time getting the mealworm. But they didnt seem to mind my hand being there, neither of them ran to hide.

I think the temp gun is pretty acurate. I am using the digital thermometer just to tell how much the temp goes up and down, and the temp gun for the actual temps.

I have the mealworms on bran, and some of it got in the cage while I was feeding them. Whats the best way to clean it up ? Do I have to worry about the leo's eating it ?

I put in a few carrot pieces with the mealworms should I take it out before I go to bed or can I just leave it in there ?

For the moss how long does it take to dry ? I just made a tiny cereal bowl of it. So the bowl is sitting on my dresser right now. Should I just put it in a ziplock bag or wait for it to dry first ?

It really is hard to fight the urge to pick them up. Especially since they really didnt seem to care that my hand was in the cage or infront of them while I was feeding them. I will have to look out for my girlfriend, she is already asking me why I havent started to handle them so they get used to us.

 

Good god! Now those were some hungry little leos =) I'd imagine the mealworms must have been small otherwise they would have consumed their body weight in worms tonight lol

When getting the kingworms make sure they are actual kingworms or superworms and NOT giant Mealworms. Some pet stores don't know the difference and think they are the same when the really aren't. Read this:
http://www.reptilerooms.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65777

I don't think it's going to be a problem with the leos eating a little bran, but try to get as much off the worms as possible so they are mainly filling up on the insects. It's obviously near impossible to remove every single bit. If you mean cleaning the spilled bran up in the cage, I would recommend just using a damp paper towel or even scotch tape to pick up specific areas.

You can leave the carrot in there for up to 24 hours then I would remove it to prevent mold. I usually offer my insects greens and veggies in amounts that so that they completely consume the quantity every single day I provide it with only a little leftover to be removed. But you could throw a whole carrot in there and let them eat for 24 hours then remove it (but that would be kind of a waste of an entire carrot). To keep them properly gutloaded, I like to provide the veggies to the insects almost every day...although they can survive with only the water from a source once a week I like to think the more good things they get in them the better they will be for the lizard

It's hard to say how long it will take to dry out. Are you wondering about for storage of the bulk of it you haven't used yet?

If it's clumped together it will take much longer, if you really want it to try I would lay it all out in thin sheets on top of paper towel. It's probably too cold outside to let them sun-dry depending on where you live, but once it feels completely dry to the touch you can store it in a bag and it will keep. I would say maybe a couple of hours in the sun or laid out thin will probably do the job.

It sounds like they are settling in very nicely having eaten and not been too afraid of your hand. I would give them a couple more days then if everything seems fine you can probably begin to try and earn their trust. Hand feeding may be a good way to start if they showed little fear of you and were willing to eat with you watching...try putting a few mealies in your hand and lay it flat in front of them and see if they pick them up right from you =)

 

Ya, the mealworms are pretty small. I only bought 10 grams form the store and I still have quite a few left I think. Should I leave some in their food dish over night ? The pet store doesnt sell any of the giant mealworms. They have the regular mealworms and kingworms. At least they call them kingworms. They are bigger and can pinch. Whats the diffrence between silkworms and superworms and pheonix worms ?

I just cut up a few pieces of carrot and put it in there. I will take the left overs out tomorrow morning and maybe put in some pieces of apple or something.

Ya, for the bulk can I just ziplock it and leave it in the garage or something. There isnt much sun here at this time of the year. Even when there is it usually only gets up to a 7C or so, not sure what that is in farenhiet. So I guess it will take awhile to dr out then.

I think I will keep sort of hand feeding them. Or at least putting it a little ways away from them, its interesting to watch them hunt. I will try putting a mealworm on my hand in a few days and see if they will take it.

I will try and get some pictures on here when we start handling them a bit. Or sooner if they decided to stay out of their hides long enough.

 

Silkworms (bombyx mori) are a soft bodied caterpillar of the chinese silk-moth, they only eat mulberry or special chow and are one of the more expensive feeders and require special care in their own sense. They can grow to be extremely large very quickly (up to about 3" and very fat within a couple of weeks) and they really don't move much. Most herps relish them, and they have excellent nutritional values, the only problem you may run into is their lack of movement...they pretty much just sit there waiting for food to fall on their head.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/JEFFREH/Silkwormies.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/JEFFREH/Silkworms.jpg

Superworms (zophobas morio) really are very similar to mealworms, but they are a completely different species. They have better meat to shell ratios and grow larger naturally. They also have a long shelf-life and ill not pupate in groups, will die if refrigerated being a tropical species, and they are very active and visually stimulating. They are always on the move unlike mealworms and they do have stronger jaws but they will not hurt you or your leo.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/JEFFR...ersEatSilkC.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/JEFFREH/SupersA.jpg

Superworms are also a little darker in color, particularly around the head. Thats another easy way to tell them from mealworms. If you open the container of them they should be pretty active and have this larger and darker appearance.

Phoenix worms are are very small species of maggot/larvae from a south American fly called the black soldier fly... they are very high in calcium and are somewhat active but they tend to be quite small an pricey. I think mulberryfarms sells them and the other feeders and include more info and pictures.

Check out that topic in the feeder forum titled "Giant Mealworms" I linked to earlier. I include a lot of details about feeders and nutritional value charts in some of the later posts.

EDIT: I realize that you are probably not from the US so finding suppliers for some of these feeders will be limited =(. I don't really have any sources off of the top of my head so you will have to do some searching for any of these less-common feeder insects.

 

Ok, thanks for clearing all that up. The pet store by my place sells the regular mealworms and superworms(kingworms here) and of course diffrent sizes of crickets.

After last nights demolishing of the little mealworms I bought, I have decided to try the superworms tonight. Hopefully it wont take me an hour to feed them tonight. I think I need a better way of getting the mealworms out of the bran. I was just using my hands to pick them out which was annoying. I think I will dust the kingworms with the multivitamin powder tonight. For the calcium powder the feeders should be dusted every time I dont use the d3 or multivitamin powder right ? Or did I miss read the care sheet ?

So they seem to be moving around more today. I saw veronica by the calcium dish today. I havent seen either one of them drink any water, they should be able to find it right ? Or use the humid hide. I also havent seen any poop yet, inless its in one of the hides. How long does it usually take them to poop after they eat ?

Pictures should come up this weekend, Also what should I use to clean the tank ? It should be completely cleaned out once a week right ?

 

Well I fed them again tonight. Betty ate 5 kingworms and 1 mealworm and Veronica ate 1 kingworm and 15 mealworms. The first kingworm Veronica ate I think it pinched her twice. She grabed it and it came up at her face and she droped it. She did that twice before eating it. Then she wouldnt even touch them. She was happy to eat some mealworms though. Betty seemed to enjoy the kingworms.

Veronica wont touch the food if it doesnt move. She will poke at it but thats all. If it moves too far away from the opening of her hide she wont go get it. She never seems to have anymore than half her body out of the hide, inless she is moving around the tank. I have to keep pushing the mealworms to the front of her hide so she will eat them. Then she just sits with her head out waiting for more. When I took one of the kingworms and put it infront of her back end first to try and get her to eat it she didnt have a problem with my hand being that close to her. Betty has no problem with my hand being in the tank either it seems.

I was thinking it would be easier to feed them in seperate containers out of the tank. Do you think that would work ? Or should I wait a little while longer before I try that ? I also dusted the feeders with the repcal multivitamin.

 

You can try running the worms through a sifter of some kind, although with them being so small it may be difficult to find one the proper size. Perhaps pick them out, then lay them onto a tray and shake them around a bit to remove the sticking substrate, THEN individually pick them up and feed? Wow, thats very tedious... I think you will be okay if some is on there as it will be near impossible to remove it all lol

You will dust will the pure calcium that has no D3 almost every feeding, and once a week multivitamin and once a week calcium with D3. It is confusing, I know. On the days you are providing the D3 and the multivitamin you will not be giving the pure calcium. So it will be something like...4-5 days a week dust with calcium no D3, 1 day with D3, 1 day with multivitamin while they are young.

You should see poop within another day or two, and they can find their water fine =). Some seem to enjoy drinking when they know we aren't watching...probably just to keep us on our toes.

Spot cleaning the poo whenever you see it and changing the water bowl frequently will be your primary cleaning task. For full blown cage disinfecting there are a number of things you can do. Remind me to get more into this on the next post, I'm very short on time right now and this is my last post for the evening =P

Although there are benefits to the liveliness of superworms/kingworms there are also the downfalls. One of which being their tendency to violently move around immediately after being grabbed up in such a way that it could scare the leo a bit. I doubt that it actually bit her or gave noticeable pain of any kind, probably more of a surprise...she's probably not used to eating something that has a little fight. Maybe try picking out the less active ones for Veronica to allow her to enjoy them a little more.

I think the picking food up and spitting it back out is somewhat normal. I've seen them do this from time to time, almost as though they are inspecting the quality or something. I like to think it's they're way of wanting to eat out of natural instinct yet not having as much desire to knowing that food is readily available whenever and they just had a larger meal the night before. If it gets to the point where they aren't eating anything at all then i would begin to get concerned or switch to a new feeder for a bit to mix things up (like a cricket). I believe you might have a lazy leo there who knows that food will be delivered right to her door...literally haha. Keep trying to ease her out and if she doesn't eat as much one night because she's stubborn then let her go...the next evening(s) she will regret her laziness and probably be hungry enough to do a little hunting.

You could feed in separate enclosures but I would give them a little more settling time. Then once they are used to it you can give that a try and see how it works for you.

 

I have been trying to find a sifter that will work but no luck. I found one that would let the bran fall threw but the mealworms aswell. The other wont let the bran fall threw. It is very tedious, it again took me an hour to feed them because the stupid mealworms are so small and blend in with the bran really well. I did get most of the bran off of them so no more went into the cage.

Ok, so I always dust with pure calcium when im feeding except if im dusting with d3 or multivitamins. And I always leave the pure calcium in a dish. Thats alot of calcium. I got a little writting book today so I can keep track of who eats what and how much and when I give supplements.

I did see poop tonight. Only one though, Im not sure who it was from, so I guess thats a good sign. I picked it up with some kleenex and flushed it.

If you could get more in depth with the cleaning that would be great. I have heard bleach and water works well is that true ?

You are probably right. I dont think it hurt her probably did just give her a scare. But the guy who we bought them off of said he was feeding them kingworms/superworms. So I thought they would both eat them. When I first put one down Veronica actually did follow it around a bit( I guess my last post wasnt completely true, but for the most part she stays in the hide.) then bit it, it squirmed she droped it then came back again and ate it. Betty on the other hand learned if you bite the head first nothing comes back at you. I did try taking one that was barely moving and set it infront of her and she poked it with her nose and left it. I then picked it up and moved it around in front of her, again she came up to it poked it and went back to her hide.

Alright, I will give them more settling in time before I try feeding in another container. I will put a mealworm or something in my hand and see if they will eat off it or not tommorrow. You said the kingworms are a tropical species, how well can they take the cold ?

 

Superworms do ideal between 70-80 degrees F for keeping them alive and on the shelf, and can handle upwards to 90 optimal growth and breeding. Anything much lower than the average room temp range will probably kill them, so if it get to be 65 degrees F or less where they are kept you might want to consider some supplemental heat for them.

It is a lot of calcium, but growing herps need it =). Honestly, you could probably get away with supplementing the pure calcium every other feeding so long as the dish is always in there. I would aim to dust daily, but if you skip a day or two it won't be detrimental.

Cleaning... right. Haven't forgotten =)

There are several options you can choose from for thorough cage cleaning and disinfecting. I recently posted about this in the enclosures forum, so I will take a quotation from the post I made and just paste it here for simplicity:

---'For the wood (or most decor for that matter), you can simply just soak it in very hot soapy water (The hotter the better, even boiling but be CAREFUL) or a 5-10% diluted bleach solution. Another good cleaning product is Nolvasan, although it tends to be a pricey, I know many people recommend this as a disinfectant for furniture in enclosures. I believe this needs to be diluted as well.

Soak the wood for 15-30 minutes or so in one of those options then THOROUGHLY wash it down with water. Then soak it in water for good period of time, I even take the extra precaution of replacing the water that it's soaked in 2-3 times to remove as much of the disinfectant as possible. It's then best to allow the piece to air dry in a well ventilated area for about 24+ hours in order for the fumes to disperse. Bleach is an extremely effective disinfectant, but is harmful if swallowed or inhaled so it's important to follow precautions carefully to avoid harming the animal. Obviously the hot soapy water is most safe form, but may be least effective in thorough disinfection (which may be necessary if the animals is diseased, has an infection or parasite).

Wood can also easily be baked to kill of any pathogens after it has been wiped down and spot cleaned. You can throw the piece in there at 250 degrees F for about 30 minutes or so and that should do a pretty good as well. I actually prefer this because it takes much less time than soaking and disinfecting with the solutions. And don't worry, it won't catch fire =) I think paper's ignition point isn't even until around 400+ degrees F.' ---

Your set-up and actual decorations within the enclosure are going to determine the best method for cleaning. The main problem with using the baking method is that certain things can melt, while the primary problem around the diluted bleach solution is the wait time on allowing the fumes to disperse and the precautions to make sure it is safe.

There is a product called Nolvasan that is brilliant, but if you aren't in the US I don't know of any distributors =/ sorry. Here's another post quote from that same topic regarding it that I made:

---'Hmm, I may have found something here that could be helpful. And I'm just realizing your in the UK so the actual link may not be very beneficial to you, but you should be able to find the product somewhere. This might have been your best bet the whole time but I didn't elaborate on it because I don't have personal experience with it.

I personally have never used Nolvasan, but i have heard great things about it and I may invest in it here. I've even heard of it being recommended for sick animals who have parasites or digestive tract infections that need extremely sanitary conditions in the enclosure.

And according to this website, it does not need to be diluted, is used by vets, and is perfectly safe to use right in the enclosure on cage decor.
http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/index.p...category_id=176 '----


Here's the link to that topic:
http://www.reptilerooms.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65792

Nolvasan seems to be the ideal choice for disinfecting anything in the viv in a completely safe way. It's specifically called chlorhexidine diacetate and from what I have read is extremely effective against many pathogens (including bacteria, fungi, and even virus's). I believe Chlorhexidine in general is considered a safe cleaning agent.

I'm sure you can find it somewhere, vets use it often and I'm sure it's relatively common. I've also heard of some keepers making their own recipes of alcohol and vinegar solutions to clean with instead, but I'm not familiar with that.

Sorry this is somewhat sporadic, hopefully you can get an understanding. A full cage cleandown can be as simple as wiping things down with hot soapy water and rinsing throroughly (geckos removed from cage of course) or you can take it a step further for total disinfection with the other methods. I think the best bet from my understanding will be to try and find some Chlorhexidine/Nolvasan. You don't need to completely strip everything down an clean the enclosure once a week, maybe once a month or two if you are spot cleaning daily and otherwise keeping things tidy.

 

Thanks, that clears up the cleaning stuff. I willl probably use soap and water, it just seems easier. I will try to look for tha Nolvasan stuff. I'm in Canada not UK so there might be something here.

I'm still trying to find a sifter that will work, but no luck. I think feeding them might just always be a pain in the ass. Someone suggested to me that I weight them every so often and keep track of thier weight gain. Will a regular bathroom scale work or would I have to find one of those small scales ?

What do I do if Veronica is just lazy ? Do I not put the food near her and if she wont come out to get it let her go hungry ? I have a feeling it is going to be a pain to try and get her used to handling because she is always in the hides. Will she start coming out more once she gets used to the new tank?

 

A regular bathroom scale probably won't be accurate enough to measure their weight, you will need something that can weigh in grams. A small digital kitchen scale usually does the job, and it's nice to have on hand to keep track of growth rates and weight losses during potential illness.

Maybe the next batch of mealworms will be a larger for you and it will make things simpler. I'm sure there are also websites online that sell bulk quantities and can ship them to you, maybe you could try ordering teh average size mealworm in bulk and breed them to have a constant supply. Or just make room in the fridge for 500 worms =). It's an option but its almost always cheaper to order online and you might be able to find ones that have sizes so you wont be digging through to get itty bitty worms.

For Veronica, give her some more time. Also, try not to baby her too much. If she's lazy about it you can offer a worm or two to get her to eat right next to her but if she continues to be shy just leave some worms in the dish overnight and let her find them on her own. She'll come around with time =) you just dont want her to come to accept that you will always be dropping food right to her front door where she won't have to exert any effort to find food. Let her be lazy and go hungry, she'll begin to realize that she needs to hunt and head to the bowl of food.

 

Is the scale really needed ? Would you recomend me getting one ?

The mealworms there usually are regular size. I think they are trying to start breeding their own. Which would be why they are so small. When I go back next hopefully they will have bigger ones. I know of a place about half an hour away that breeds them, so if it does come to it I can get them there.

I just finished feeding them. I tried the kingoworms again. Veronica did much better, she ate 4! But she is really slow. She watches them for so long before she eats them. I still couldnt get her to come out and actually go after them. I tried to get them to eat off my hand but they wouldnt. They would come up to it and poke it with thier noses but thats it. I put my hand in the middle of the cage while Veronica was moving to the hot end to see what she would do. She slowed down a bit, poked me with her nose, looked at my hand and walked around it. I wiggled my finger in front of Betty just to see what she would do and she poked it like she does with the kingworms. Neither one of them seem to be bothered by my hand being in the cage or near them.

I did see more poop today. It was smaller than the one yesterday so maybe they have both pooped now. Veronica was out today. I caught her drinking water it was interesting to watch.

Do you think I could start trying to handle them yet ? Im getting alot of complaints from my girlfriend because I havent started doing it yet. "No, it will stress them out" just isnt working as a reason.

 

Women. LOL

I think it will be alright to handle them if they are eating okay and seemed okay with your hand in their general vicinity. Especially if they were willing to at least investigate it with their "poking." I can actually get a great mental image of that, I've noted several times the way they do this to check things out.

Great news that your seeing poop and they're eating like that =) 4 supers is a pretty substantial meal, I would say they're doing pretty good with feeding, especially for being in a new home.

As for the scale, I don't necessarily see it as a requirement in keeping herps. It might be something that would be nice to have on hand, but it's primarily for your own records of weight gains and growth if your interested in that, or for sick or breeding animals. That pretty much leaves it as a thing you will want to have if they end up getting ill, considering you aren't breeding and the records is simply for your own sake if you choose to do so.

So anyway, I think it's a nice thing to have on hand just in case and because I keep weight records of my animals...but it's a little less of a necessity for leos that are kept as pets. If a friend or family member has one you could always just use that if it comes down to where they have potential disease. I use mine all the time but I keep and breed and need it to keep a weight watch on my bearded dragon before he sleeps the winter months away during brumation to make sure he is keeping weight. I also use it to weigh out various other herp-related things but none of which would really pertain to you lol (like incubating medium, gutload composition and silkworm chow, salads, certain water things, etc).

It sounds like your leos are really doing great and they have an excellent owner =)

 

Ok, I will try and handle them a bit tomorrow then. Hopefully it will go well.

I will see if I know anyone with a tiny scale. It would be interesting to see how much they grow and stuff. While breeding would be cool, the whole genetics thing I find very interesting. That wont happen for a long long time if ever. I am assuming that brumation is the reptile equivelent of hibernation ? Will my leo's do this as well ?

I put some mealworms in their food dish tonight. Betty only ate 2 kingworms so I thought it would be a good idea. I'm not sure if they will eat it, this is the first time I have put food in the dish so they probably wont even know its there.

 

Yea, brumation is just a winter-slowdown like hibernation.

Leo's won't brumate; although some slow down a little in the winter and don't eat as much and sleep just a little more often. 95%+ remain fully active and normal if they're enclosure conditions remain the same year round. Bearded dragons and a few other select herps will go into a full-blown brumation where they can be asleep for months. It's not always a constant heavy sleep, they wake up from time to time but it depends on the individual. For example, my beardie went down last month and I take tabs on his weight and give him a bath to keep him hydrated every week or two, and I anticipate he won't actually become active again until February. He sleeps like a log through the entire thing and grumps at me when I wake him up...then one day in Spring he will be running around and wanting food like like he hasn't eaten in months! During the whole ordeal they barely lose any weight (if any), its really pretty amazing how some animals can slow their metabolism to such a point and still survive...

 

Ok, I will try and handle them a bit tomorrow then. Hopefully it will go well.

I will see if I know anyone with a tiny scale. It would be interesting to see how much they grow and stuff. While breeding would be cool, the whole genetics thing I find very interesting. That wont happen for a long long time if ever. I am assuming that brumation is the reptile equivelent of hibernation ? Will my leo's do this as well ?

I put some mealworms in their food dish tonight. Betty only ate 2 kingworms so I thought it would be a good idea. I'm not sure if they will eat it, this is the first time I have put food in the dish so they probably wont even know its there.