Newbie to Reptiles

Discussion in 'Ball Pythons' started by HelicopterPilot, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. HelicopterPilot

    HelicopterPilot New Member

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    I can't find any breeders with a Normal ball python.

    RDR doesn't have any and bobclard hasn't replied yet
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. SatanicIntention

    SatanicIntention New Member

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    Try Don Hamper. I got my girl from him last November. She was $30+$35 shipping. She was bred by him and has been just wonderful. You can also try NERD(www.newenglandreptile.com), Adam Wysocki(www.8ballpythons.com), Cherryville Reptiles-John Cherry(www.cherryvillereptiles.com), Mike Wilbanks(www.constrictors.com). I know you may only see that these people carry just morphs, but you should give them a call and ask what they have "normal" wise. A normal male will run you about $35 or so, and a normal female maybe $50. Just ask around. I know for sure that Adam has some normals. Don Hamper should too. Bob Clark usually has normals, but may just be busy with hatching season and all that mess. Everytime I have emailed him, he has replied very fast, usually same day. Try giving him a call, as well as some of the others, and see what they can get for you.

    I promise, you will be MUCH happier with a captive bred and born baby that you know has been well-cared for, is eating and has no internal parasites, rather than a mite-infested, unhealthy, improperly cared for, snake from a pet store. You will have a better time caring for the animal and it will be more rewarding(meaning you won't have trouble with it eating, you won't be taking it to the vet for multiple dewormings, not the mention the high vet bills). You and the snake will have had a much better start at a very long relationship. :D
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. piratejack

    piratejack Embryo

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    i paid 44 bucks at petco with a PALS card
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. SatanicIntention

    SatanicIntention New Member

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    And you also got a captive hatched baby straight from Africa.... I paid $65 total for my CBB girl, but she has never missed a meal, has no internal parasites, has a wonderful temperment(has never hissed, struck or even attempted to bite), even in shed.

    Most pet stores don't even know how to properly feed these snakes. The usually start them off on pinky or fuzzy mice, and it takes the poor snake more energy to digest that meal than it gets from the meal. Babies straight out of the egg may take a hopper for their first meal, but after that they are on small adult mice.
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    First, thanks for the awesome info in your post, it is appreciated. Second, really if we wanted to we could research how to perform different surgical acts on animals and then pass along that info to the people here and let them go ahead and give it a shot but we don't. Why? For the same reason we advise to feed frozen/thawed. IT'S THE SAFER WAY TO GO!!!. Do you understand that concept and why we advise some of the things we do?

    If you've got an 8 year old kid who needs to cut a piece of wood and there's a circular saw and a hand saw which one are you going to advise the kid use? If you say a hand saw then why did you choose that? I mean if you handle a circular saw correctly there is absolutely no danger, right?

    Satanic, while you probably 100% correct in what you're saying about people being successful feeding live you have to look at why certain things are advised against and really take that into consideration.

    Next time leave the "ignorance" part out or don't post. It's comments like these that get things heated and are unnecessary.
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. Janice

    Janice ReptileBoards Addict

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    Most of the people that come here, come here because they are new. Are you really going to tell someone that is new to snakes to feed live????? There is way too much that can go wrong. Whether held by their tail, or cornered by a snake, it doesn't take much for the mouse or rat to attack. Especially a ball python!!! When scared or nervous, a ball python balls up and hides its head. But hiding their head doesn't protect their body.
     
  12. shrap

    shrap ReptileBoards Addict

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    I encourage all new snake keepers to feed PK or FT. Now with that being said.... let the fireworks begin!!!!!

    There is nothing "WRONG" with feeding live. I am a firm believer in telling the full truth about things, not just the information that is "BEST". Give ALL of the info so people can make an informed decision for themselves.

    When done properly by experienced keepers the odds of live feeding doing any harm to your snake is minimal at best. I have personally done 100's of live feedings and have not had one major injury and only one minor one.... a scratch that barely broke the skin.

    The key is knowing your animals behavior and setting up consistent feeding routines.

    Now with that being said, I would never encourage live feeding but I would also not make it out to be a death sentence for a snake. That is just plain not true and is false information based on personal preference not fact. The fact of the matter is that feeding FT can be just as problematic as live if you do not follow the proper procedures for each method.
     
  13. Janice

    Janice ReptileBoards Addict

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    I don't mean for it to sound like a death sentence. But you definately have to be careful. You can't just throw the rodent in and walk away.
     
  14. shrap

    shrap ReptileBoards Addict

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    Like i said, Janice.....

    ... knowing behavior, setting up routines and proper procedures.
     
  15. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    I think there are a couple of reasons this doesn't happen all the time. One, if someone comes here asking what humidity they should keep their snake at and also asks what's recommended, f/t or live, I don't have time to go into the proper procedure for feeding live and instead will just advise the safest thing to do is feed f/t. Two, when someone is brand new into reptiles, in my mind, chances are they may not even have enough knowledge to make a good decision about certain things. I think if you volunteer methods that can pose a danger but also indicate it can be done without any problems you're giving someone knowledge that very well may end up hurting them or their animal. I think it's fine that SI comes here every once in a while and makes a beef about this type of thing as that does spread the knowledge. I just know I'll put my .02 in whenever I see it happen. :D
     
  16. HelicopterPilot

    HelicopterPilot New Member

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    Hmm , I am definetly going to feed f/t.

    The only reason I would ever want to feed live is to watch the python hunt the rat/mouse. We have Animal Planet for that.

    EDIT: Parents consisntley say no. Yes I really want a snake that bad to scrafice my allowance. ( Man I am doing alot for a snake I don't have )

    They keep giving me the "becuase were parents and we say no" reason.

    My Dad is closer than my mom to saying yes becuase I got someone who owned a bp at petco to talk to him. he says yes If we move to houston texas like my friend.

    My mom says no we won't have a snkae in the house. There is no reason to say no. I willl pay for all the stuff, we have room for it full grown, I will have a seperate fridge just for rats, she won't even have to see it. I will lock the cage with padlocks, or atleast some good source of locking.

    today she said I can't break her down, we will never have a snake.

    Any tips or sumtin, that would help me get one. I could even wait until christmas if I have to .


    Yeah for edit button!
     
  17. HelicopterPilot

    HelicopterPilot New Member

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    Man I really hate to post to my own post ,but I need to point out the only problem with me keeping a Snake is my age . I am only 12. I am mature though. I no alot about responsibilty (baby sister and some R/C vehicles that require lots of maintenance).

    I just hope my 'rents don't hold that against me.

    So yeah any tips for getting parents to say yes. is there a book on persuasion or sumtin
     
  18. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    Ask her why she doesn't want a snake? When you get an answer "because I don't like them" tell her that's not a very good reason and ask her if she has ever thought maybe it's only society that has caused her to have this fear for snakes? Ask her if she's ever been hurt by a snake? Ask her if she's ever been around a snake for any period of time. If she says no take her to the pet store and see if she'll consider holding or touching one just to help her get over her unnatural fear of them. If she says absolutely not then give up for a while, get all the info together you possibly can and show it all to her. Show her the responses you've been getting on here. Show her how much effort and work you've put into all of this and go from there. Good luck! I really hope she turns around if the reason for her not wanting you to get one is based purely on the unnatural fear society has caused people to have of these shy, docile creatures who never have any intentions of hurting anyone unless they deserve it. Good luck!!! :)
     
  19. rabernet

    rabernet Embryo

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    Hehehe, just like me to make my first post be on such a volatile subject.

    Here's my take on it. I am relatively new to balls, got my lovely Kashmire in early July. He was reportedly eating live hoppers when I got him.

    I too thought f/t ONLY for my boy, or at least pre-killed, but I didn't know if I'd be able to pre-kill myself.

    So, first attempt at feeding after a week of letting Kash acclimate, making sure husbandry was correct, etc, I go to the pet store (that I can walk to, it's that close) pick up a feeder and ask them to pre-kill it for me. Go immediately home, offer to Kashmire, he's not interested. Did the dead mouse zombie dance, re-heated the nose on the basking light, etc and put it in his hide. He slept on it all night. Removed it the next morning.

    Next attempt was live fuzzies.... no interest. F/T mouse...no interest. Called Adam up at 8ballpythons (who I did NOT buy the snake from, but was willing to talk to me for hours on end, BTW) who has been breeding and feeding live for 20 + years, for suggestions. He suggested that I try a live hopper (who's teeth are too soft to do any damage to your snake and even if they took a nibble, the snake would constrict tighter and it would release just trying to breath) in the enclosure with balls of newspaper all in the enclosure to make him feel secure. Darned if he did not eat that hopper (now this is after a month of not eating anything at just 2 months old).

    He did re-gurg that hopper two days later (with no handling) and Adam suggested I get him to a vet ASAP to be tested for internal parasites (came back positive). He's now had his two doses of Panacur two weeks apart and still refuses pre-killed or frozen food.

    I don't take feeding live lightly, and have only done so under the guidance of Adam. IMHO, newbie that I may be, I knew enough to speak to someone who has 20+ years of feeding a colony of over 200 snakes live with no injuries in that time to give me proper guidance. NEVER do I walk away from the enclosure when feeding live. The mice really are clueless that Kashmire is a predator. They find out when they walk up to sniff him and he nails them. If he's not hungry, they have walked up to him, sniffed him, turned around and gone back to exploring the enclosure. They have not viewed him as a threat. If Kashmire has not eaten in 30 minutes, the mouse is removed. It hasn't had time to get hungry enough to look at Kash as possible food, and it's quite honestly, not even thinking about the snake in that amount of time, it's still interested in exploring the enclosure.

    The mouse is removed, put into its Kritter Keeper to try again the following week.

    My primary concern has been getting Kashmire healthy again after his regurg and his 'bout with internal parasites. If I followed the advice to ONLY FEED F/T, Kashmire's health could be put on the line from mal-nutrition (remember we're talking about at the time a 2 month old hatchling who even the vet said was too thin from lack of nutrition that the parasites were sucking out of him).

    Yes, there are newbies here, and feeding f/t is definitely the wiser choice for someone who is not comfortable feeding live, or pre-killing themselves. But there are newbies of us who have consulted the "experts" and don't take feeding live lightly. I would hate to think that Kashmire died because I was "guilted" into thinking that I was a bad person or was doing something wrong for feeding him live if he refused all other forms during his illness. In fact, it insults my intelligence to suggest that because I am a newbie that I would not do my research before attempting it.

    Will I switch him to f/t? I don't know at this time. But I agree with SatanicIntention that preaching that you should ONLY feed F/T or NEVER feed live could cost the life of your snake if he's not eating.

    If you choose to feed live, consult with the experts (breeders who feed all their colony live...can you imagine having to thaw 200+ prey items on feeding day?).

    Feed what's most comfortable for you, but if you choose to feed live, do so with great care and consideration first and don't let anyone make you feel bad for that decision. My personal rule, never walk away from the enclosure, and live mouse is in enclosure no longer than 30 minutes. If they "last" 30 minutes, the majority of their time is spent exploring and grooming themselves.

    Robin
     
  20. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    Whoa hold on just a sec there. If I'm not mistaken it has never been suggested that if a ball will not eat f/t to not try live or prekilled and frankly for those of use who spend hours a day on here trying to help people keep their animals healthy that is indeed very insulting.

    If you had any idea how many newbies buy animals and have either been told the wrong info or have never even bothered to spend more than 15 minutes in a book you wound't have made this statement. A lot of those hours spent by people trying to help others is spent on exactly those people who haven't adequately prepared.

    Show me in this forum where someone says to only feed f/t and never frozen regardless of the circumstances and we'll talk.

    I'd also like to know how much research you did before you bought your snake? Was it by accident you bought a wild caught python or were you aware you'd get a ball with parasites and most likely feeding problems?

    It amazes me how someone who can have so little experience with something can come here and make the kinds of statements you've made.
     
  21. rabernet

    rabernet Embryo

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    Actually, I spent many months researching before I purchased Kashmire from Scales (ExoticLizards) and read all the reviews on the Fauna BOI and they had rave reviews. I did know that he was CH from Ghana when I purchased him, but everyone on Fauna (breeders included) rated them good guys. Thanks for asking.
     
  22. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    So you intended on buying a python that would most likely be riddled with parasites and have feeding problems? Are you planning on breeding this python? Just trying to figure out why someone would want to go this route.

    Hey, I wish you and your BP the best. Here's a piece of advice from a friendly forum moderator with a ton more experience than you with BP's. Take a step back and do some more reading before you come here making false accusations and telling others our advice is crap. Not a good start, Robin.
     
  23. rabernet

    rabernet Embryo

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    Who did I make false accusations against? I didn't point fingers at anyone, I said that when "people" say that you should never feed live, they are making those who chose to feed live feel as if they are the bad guy. You guys made analogies about surgery and chain saws with 8 year olds when Satanic Intention wrote about feeding live.

    Am I planning on breeding him? Not sure. But would you tell the top ball breeders that introduce new bloodlines into their breeding programs direct from Africa that they shouldn't do that either? They also know the risks that some of them may have parasites, get them treated and healthy and they go on to become part of their breeding colony.

    I also don't believe I said that your advice was crap. I was sharing my personal experience and the knowledge that was shared with me from a breeder who's been in the business for 20 plus years. I don't know if your BP knowledge trumps his or not.
     
  24. HelicopterPilot

    HelicopterPilot New Member

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    What I did last night was I compiled form alot of sources the statement of their docielness, and instead of attacking when scared they curl up into a ball. I had about 10 sources and I listed where I got them from and I emailed it to my moms email address. She still says no ,but I definetly got here somewhere closer to them. I will try asking the questions you said. Also my dad said that I would freak out when I handle one and he wants me to go to petco to handle one. I have never handled one ,but I sure want to , and I am sure it will help me with my future Ball Python.


    EdIT Also I will not try to feed live unless that is the absolout last suggestion. to many risks involved and none of them I want to take.

    Edit button rocks BTW
     
  25. wideglide

    wideglide Well-Known Member

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    HelicopterPilot,

    I apologize for the stray from your original topic and if there weren't posts that contained info on both matters I'd go ahead and split this thread up.

    Sounds like maybe you're making some progress. I definitely think you should go handle one and take your dad with you and see if you can convince your mom as well. Once most people experience these creatures in person their fear begins to subside. Really I think that's the key with your mom right now.

    When you handle the snake just move real slow with every move you make. Any sudden movements can scare them and then that can cause you to jerk accidentally, etc. Also, let the snake go where it wants and use your hand, arm or whatever just like the ground or a branch it would be crawling on. If it begins to go somewhere you don't want bring a hand underneath towards it's head and gently lift the snake to guide it where you want it to go. Again make every movement nice and slow and deliberate. Keep us posted!! :D

    rabernet,

    Fair enough rabernet. Seemed pretty obvious but maybe I was wrong.

    Where is this coming from if you aren't referring to anyone here? Has this advice been given to you on a different site somewhere?

    Where did she state this? Could you link to it please?

    There are over 65,000 BP's exported from Africa every year and currently breeders breed daughters to fathers over and over. I don't think it's necessary to even go there.

    You're right again you never said any of our advice was crap and I apologize for the accusations.

    My BP knowledge is no where near what Adam's is.

    I commend you for the research you've done and wish everyone who is going to get a pet would do the same thing. Believe me it is refreshing to see when someone does what's necessary beforehand. Definitely look forward to learning and sharing info on BP's with you. :)
     

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