Hey hey, Has anyone tried the "Phoenix Worms" Mulberry Farms is offering? If so, what did you think and what did you feed to them? http://mulberryfarms.com/phoenix.htm And here's a link to the guy who "discovered" them: http://entomology.ent.uga.edu/personnel/faculty/sheppard.htm Thanks, Vanessa
Here's a thread from back in October with limited info: http://www.reptilerooms.com/index.php?name...ghlight=phoenix They've come up 3 times now (including this thread), but I don't know of anyone that's using them as a feeder.
I've been feeding phoenix worms to my beardie and now they are his favorite food! But you don't feed these worms at all, just add a couple of drops of water if they look like they're getting dried out. I get mine from www.phoenixworm.com since they are in Georgia.
Do you use them as his staple prey or feed the beardie something else? I have a beardie too and I'm curious about these...
I give Buddy phoenix worms every other day along with his salad. He just doesn't like crix. But I believe it's important to make sure he gets a varied diet. These worms are different, LMarshall. You don't gut load them or dust them or anything. They have 60 times the calcium of mealworms plus they have a soft body (no shell). I just keep mine in the cup they came in to maintain them. You don't put these worms in the refrigerator yet they keep for a long time. I haven't tried to raise any so don't know about that.
I have been testing phoenix worms on several bearded dragons and veiled chameleons for the last month. So far, I plan to keep using them. I currently use them to make up about 25% of their insect intake. Even the larges are fairly small, so it takes quite a few to feed an adult lizard. I will list out the observations I have made below, just remember I have only been using them for 4 weeks. The bearded dragons seem to defecate less often, larger amounts. I keep careful records on all of my reptiles, so it was easy to tell that they were going longer between movements, it doesn't seem to be the same for chameleons. The beardeds also drink quite a bit more, they typically stopped drinking after 25-30 sec during misting. On phoenix worms they drank for 45-60 sec, plus they would stoop during baths and drink from the tub. This seemed odd to me, but I haven't tested water content on the phoenix worms yet, I will test that tonight and post the results tomorrow. Weight gain has remained steady, the same as before changing their diet. So far both the chameleons and dragons love them, they will ignore crickets and go straight for the phoenix worms. One female BD that has always been a slow eater readily charges the dish for phoenix worms. The only complaint I have is that the largest ones I have received were about 1/2", if they grew to about 3/4"-1" it would make it much easier to use as a staple food. I have one cup of a 100 that I have now had for four weeks (I am keeping this cup to note their longevity), and the only thing I have had to do is drip a few drops of water in. They have turned black, but are still alive and moving. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to test these out and see if they worked as well as they claim. Now we need someone to test their claim of curing MBD...
I believe I read somewhere that when they turn black they are getting ready to 'hatch' into flies.... :shock: Still debating about whether to give the Leo's a go with them or not, they do seem small. Thanks for sharing your findings!!
I believe that's correct, but so far none of the black ones have changed, they have been black for about a week. They develop a semi-hard shell as they darken, so I would be careful about using the black ones. On an update, I just pulled all of my chameleons off of the phoenix worms until I can figure out what is going on. I moved one pair up to 75% phoenix worms for the last 11 days, and began to notice a lot less activity from them on day 9, day 10 they were moving extremely slow and would not hunt for food. They seem completely healthy, hydrated and alert. Proper temps and lighting. I have changed them back to dusted crickets, and if they are not moving better this afternoon I will be taking them to the vet. I can't say this is because of the phoenix worms, but two chameleons in two different enclosures with the same environmental settings as 10 others, and they are the only two to start acting this way. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't like risking any of my animals.
Wow, that's crazy. Thanks so much for sharing your observations! I agree with the size complaint - I ordered large as well, and they were about the size of the smalls they advertised. I found that all of my newts went ga ga over them and my beardie seemed to enjoy them, but he enjoys anything he can get in his gullet. I'm glad you mentioned the turning black thing. I read that they were just getting ready to change, but my black guys became very hard and didn't move so I chucked them. I had a few the first couple of days that were black and wiggling and I fed those with no problem. I really would like to see more info on them. I got a pamplet with them that was seemingly informative... If there are no problems, I'll stick to ordering them occassionally as I prefer to order cheap bulk and that isn't an option that I've found. (All I've seen is 100 worms for $10).
I don't pay that much for my phoenix worms. I order 4 cups of large worms for $23.00 at phoenixworm.com. This is more than 400 worms and shipping is included so I'm paying $5.75 per cup.
Well both chameleons seem to be doing better, but I won't be using these for more than 25% of their insect intake. I just had a fly develop in the cup I have been keeping, and they have been black for awhile. I order from phoenixworms.com now, my first cup came from wormman, and they were double the price and much smaller. I tested several worms water content, and it is between 17-22%. Lower than I expected.
Very intresting. I have been looking into these worms for a while now. Havn't had the guts to order some because Yav's diet is just starting to balance out (Ie. Pooping more often, Eating salads and veggies, Ravaging the crickets)
I have been using phoenix worms for about a month now.. they work great. except like said above for the large dragons then it takes a bit more because their larges are rather small. the black ones are the ones about to turn into flies and also the healthiest ones to feed per phoenixworm.com. so i feed those off as much as possible. i use phoenix worms as part of a varied diet. they get about a dozen crickets a week if that and they have silkworms and phoenix worms the rest of the time. the nutritional information seems pretty good.
O darn... I did the same deal, 4 cups.... I so thought it was 100 worms divided into 4 cups... I am going to have a TON now!!! guess i was a little tired when I was ordering.. lol... But woah! i am going to have WAY too many b/c i also ordered a 100 count cup from www.wormman.com along with 500 mealies and 500 supers b/c i am going to start to raise them.... o crap... lol. So just realized I got way too many worms for my 4 leos.... lol. Paid way too much $ too... lol. O well, maybe now I can try to raise phoenix worms too... we'll see! I dont think any info about breeding phoenix worms is out yet... any info?? Caseydt, Wow! your info is awesome, great research!
Thanks, I haven't seen any info about breeding them yet. I had about 10 flies hatch out, but I haven't had any reproduce yet. I keep them in a jar with a screen lid and some fruit, and left over greens. If your worms turn black and you want to keep them as flies, separate them or give the flies a way to get away from the other worms when they morph. The remaining worms seem to eat the flies as they are morphing if they cannot escape. I was finding wing bits and hollow shells every morning until I figured this out. Good Luck, Casey
