WCs have big numbers, but there is a lot of CH Balls, as well. They raid the nest of mother BPs and transport them over. A lot of snakes die in the process.
I agree with this after having a chance to talk to a friend of mine at Berkley (he is a research biologist there) and he concluded that after talking with some of his collegues and going over some of their research documents that "yes" this is a recessive gene (not unlike other recessive genes in other animals) caused by defect and though some have bred this strain (like certain captive rattlers, gopher snakes etc) the offspring apparently do not have a regular lifespan as they are more prone to injury and/or infection. As a WC specimen a snake might experience a good lifespan (due to controlled environments and feeding techniques etc) but as a wild specimen my friend did not believe the animal would live as long as what we would call a "normal" example of the species simply because the "derma" snake would lack the necessary natural defenses.
Not sure if anyones stated this already..but just found out on another forum that the derma balls dont have heat pits! Clearly there is something wrong with attempting to breed a snake missing its scales and heat pits..or maybe that's just me? Scary to think that profit overrides ethics.
Re: RE: scaleless ball python (***DUW***) Yeah, you must have missed it, Skunky. That's really weird, though. How would the lack of scales effect the presence of heat pits??
my view on this whole thing is that, yes it is very cool, and yes, it is a breakthrough... and yes, we will breed them... but I am against hybrids and am against this thing ever being bred with scaled bps... One thign we should be trying to do, is figure out why this defect came about... pollution? change of climate? who knows... but I think it is very important for ball pythons in general...new things can be learned...
but where do the ethics come in? We would be breeding it for our own pleasure ignoring the fact that it wouldnt be able to survive on its own.
i would like to know why it is "important" to breed genetically defective BPs and what is supposedly going to be learned from it.
Ya know they prolly called some of the other morphs we're more familiar with "defects" when they first came about.
there's a big difference between a different color/pattern and having no scales. i don't think you can compare the two situations.
I don't either, there's no way that those two could be compared in the wild to say that both have the same affect on the way the animal will survive or not... Colors are not dangerous "defects" on their own, they just make blending in near impossible. But having no scales??? that would really make things hard no matter what environment it's living in... just can't compare those two
It's like a knight with bright yellow armor - sure he's going to stand out, but he's going to do a lot better than the knight with no armor! :wink: I really think this trait should be watched closely and not reproduced until (if ever) we understand a lot more about it...
'Morphs' are different from the normals, but having no scales? That is completely different. That is one of the biggest aspects of reptiles, that differ it from other orders of animals. Lacking scales significantly decreases it's chances of survival in the wild. Sure, say a piebald, will have difficulty with it's, now gone, camaflouge, but lacking scales can lead to all sorts of injuries. Not only physically, like scratches, but internal things can be lurking on the inside.
Leave it to the newbie to go against the grain, but I don't agree with the consensus here. If the snake is not suffering and it will be kept in captivity where it's special needs would be taken care of, I don't see the problem with breeding them. Obviously it would have problems in the wild, but wasn't it said that it was originally found in the wild? So apparantly some were able to survive there so what would be the problem with it being in captivity? Animals don't know they are handicapped. They play the hand they are dealt. We have hairless dogs, cats, rats, etc. and they are fine. They just have different needs. Now if they are obviously suffering from the trait, then I agree they should not be bred. That's just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of you will disagree, but that's Ok. I won't hold it against you. :wink:
Damn newbie coming in here and stirring things up..who let him in!! LOL! Opinions always welcome Slackin' and you make a valid point. I guess the point that a lot of the folk are saying is that we dont know for sure what other deleterious genes this guys may be carrying, besides loss of scales. Only way to figure that out is breeding to healthy wildtype snakes. My issue on this is purely ethical..this animal will be bred not scientific interest and understanding, but will be exploited for money money money. Chances are he was farmed, ie..taken directly from the egg of a WC female so never had a "real" experience in the wild.
I understand and agree that the people in possession of these snakes probably don't have the best interest of the animal in mind and would bread them even if they led a completely miserable life which is sad.
I think that the snake should be studied also... i wonder if the heat lamps are too much for it.. I noticed it had some scales on it's belly. I suppose that would help against the sharp objects.. who knows it may have evolved....the lack of scales might help it absorb more heat? I just think it is interesting and what does it matter if he breeds it? It will just help eveyone better understand this abnormality.
