~Shock collars~

Re: RE: Re: RE: ~Shock collars~

Ah, okay, then I'm against it for obvious reasons. I just took pictures like, two days ago. I'll post them in the photo thread.

And, yeah, I get the old 'Boxers are so fierce' crap. For that, I'll say my dog is the most gentle dog ever. Hell, he's scared when people dance. But I know if he knew we were in danger he'd snap in to action. Of course, some dogs have streaks in them. My first dog gave me 3 permanent scars. But, to judge a breed in such a wide, wide strike is unfair and unfortunate. Just like anything else in life, it's impossible to make it black and white. There will ALWAYS be more grey.

 

I'm sorry to hear about that Tux. I bet your two dogs were the friendliest things going too.

Shorep1, you got it exactly right, again, things just take a lot of time and patience, but in the end, they are definately worth it.

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: ~Shock collars~

Service dogs?! shesh
Have you seen this site? http://www.atts.org/
It's not too surprising which dogs have the lower scores.

Aside from the Great Dane I had as a very young child, and mind you.. she wasn't a "friendly" dog at all to strangers or other dogs, all I've ever had was pits. They're wonderful dogs, very friendly and never growled or had any problems with anyone that would visit. Unless the person didn't want slobberly dog kisses. Friends would even bring over their young children without worry.

None of them we had over the years ever gave us problems with endless barking either :wink: they were house dogs with plenty to keep them busy.

 

Zuberok, why is your friend's dog barking? How old and what breed is the dog? Different breeds have a different propensity for barking.
I'm guessing that the dog is outside alone and barking to get attention?

I have worked with several dogs and know several trainers and all believe that using shock collars to correct barking is an unhealthy way to do it. The barking shld be corrected IN PERSON. If the problem is disruption of neighbors because it's out alone, then your friend needs to find another solution - a typical first line of attack in these cases wld be extensive exercise and crated in the house so as not to disturb neighbors.

If the dog is barking while your friend is around, the best thing to do is to have the dog on a loose leash and use it to administer corrections.

It takes time and patience, but is should work.

Shock collars or e-collars do have their place. It's an excellent tool to train off-leash and long distance training for those dogs WHO ALREADY KNOW THE COMMANDS. e-collars shld ALWAYS be used with instructions from an experienced trainer. Someone who's not familiar with it can ruin a dog - make him neurotic and fearful.

 

That's a great point spot. I agree, they COULD work, or serve a purpose, but this should be kept to people who are experience, and not those who are merely getting annoyed from their dog barking.

 

I have labs that we train as bird hunting dogs and we use remote dog shock collars for training purposes. We never abuse it, and its just to get their attention when you have shots firing from everywhere.
Alot of animal people will say I am wrong for doing that.
I believe in taking care of animals and I believe that people who abuse animals should be beaten with whips.
Its how you take it as abuse.

ITS A DOG THEY ARE SUPOSE TO BARK!!
I think its great that our labs bark at people. Its a great security alarm system.
Can you honestly tell me that a burglar will still come into your house If you have dogs barking at them? I dont think so. Why would you silence them?
Now I can understand being able to say "Quiet!" and they are bark no more but not to stop them from barking completely.

 

I agree with Robert - you shouldn't shock a dog to keep it from barking. Dogs bark-that's what they do. And id it's just to stop barking on command, some dogs take more work to stop barking. I see it as the same thing as kicking a dog if he barks-just wrong.
Now, an e-collar to protect the dog is something entirely different. Like Robert's examplt of using them on his bird dogs, that's a backup measure to keep them from being killed. Just like that episode of the dog whisperer (I can't help it-I like the show) when that farm dog kept chasing and biting tires and would almost get run over-they used a shock collar to protect him from getting killed.
Not for barking though-that's messed up.

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: ~Shock collars~

Yup both of my APBTs were temperament tested before beginning service training as well as CGN certified. I'm working on legal recourse for the citys actions as they didn't even follow the new DOLA procedures but it will take time. Not to mention my male was a direct decedent of notorious juan gotti. I'm still tender over it. as for shock collars for off the leash training, I never needed them and my dogs could open doors, jars and turn off lights, I really don't see a use for them when their are other solutions. To me it's no different then shocking a person.

As for training hunting dogs, I grew up on a farm, we had black and tans, never needed a shock collar to train them either. Dogs respond to shock collars because they hurt, is that really what we see as acceptable these days?.

 

Actually, the e-collars don't hurt. I've tried it on myself. It just feels weird- like muscle spasm (although I never use the thing on full power) - definitely interrupts whatever it is the dog is doing.
The key to those collars and other training collars is to interrupt the train of thought of the dog to get it back on focus. It's mainly focused on the neck area because that's how dogs discipline each other. They nip the scuff. You most often see this when the mother dog is disciplining her puppies. It's a language they understand. So if such discipline methods are used in conjunction with positive reinforcements (praise, rewards) you get excellent results.

I know my dog gets all excited when I whip out the e-collar or prong collar because he knows he's going to 'work' with me which he loves to do. He will sit there wagging his tail while I put it on.

Tux, I don't know what kind of training your farm dogs had, but hunting dogs have really fine tuned training. For example, the lab hunters that I know and compete are so in synch with their handlers that they can locate hidden targets using only the handler's hand signals and whistles as guide.

 

They wern't farm dogs so to speak they were coon hunters. As for training, mostly running hot track with an experienced dog. Mind you it helps to have a dog from a established line. It all depends what your training a dog to hunt for. For a birddog a checkline and a pinch collar is what we used. Thanks for the info on ecollars though, I've never used em so it's new to me. I stand corrected on that issue.

 

Spot-

We have a friend that use to compete and we train our hunting dogs the same way. Our dogs know when its time to work and a time to play. When the collar is off its all fun licking and puppy mentality, but when those colars go on it serious and they know it and they love it. We have one dog when he sees us pull the guns out of the safe he knows and he will go on point. It is a trust thing. The difference between competition and bird hunting like we do. is you fire a blank round in competition and the dog goes and finds it, you use whistles to move the dog and get attention. The problem with using whistles with hunting multiple dogs is they will all look up and loose point on the bird they were previously looking for. When you have from 6-10 dogs all at 1 time (1 per person) It gets to crazy to have a whistle.
One rule that we have when it comes to shock collars with us is... We are not allowed to use them on the dogs unless we have shocked by them ourself.
We dont use a full blow shock. Just enough to get the dogs attention.

 

Zuberok, why is your friend's dog barking? How old and what breed is the dog? Different breeds have a different propensity for barking.
I'm guessing that the dog is outside alone and barking to get attention?

I have worked with several dogs and know several trainers and all believe that using shock collars to correct barking is an unhealthy way to do it. The barking shld be corrected IN PERSON. If the problem is disruption of neighbors because it's out alone, then your friend needs to find another solution - a typical first line of attack in these cases wld be extensive exercise and crated in the house so as not to disturb neighbors.

If the dog is barking while your friend is around, the best thing to do is to have the dog on a loose leash and use it to administer corrections.

It takes time and patience, but is should work.

Shock collars or e-collars do have their place. It's an excellent tool to train off-leash and long distance training for those dogs WHO ALREADY KNOW THE COMMANDS. e-collars shld ALWAYS be used with instructions from an experienced trainer. Someone who's not familiar with it can ruin a dog - make him neurotic and fearful.
................................

to tell you the truth it is my dog. Rowdy to be more exact is is a mix shi-zoo/ poodle he is small and he has curly,fluffy, black hair with a white diamond on his chest and a house dog (i wouldnt dare let anyone throw my dog in the cold and weather) . my dad is getting a shock collar which becasue my dog has gotten worst with his continous barking. i dont mind at all, my dad doesnt. he cant kiss, hug, or play with me becasue of rowdy's behavior. he barks and bites my dad if he comes near me. he is protective. and if he hears something out side he barks for 5-7 min. ... well i get so mad when this goes on for 5-7 min. so i take him outside so he can see the problem, no one there. so next 30 min. barooo barkooo. and if someone knocks on the door. he uses my dad's, sorry to say, nuts, as a spring board giogn to the door. and barks at the door conti until someone answers it and then wags his tail at the first sight of human. -lol-

 

well, to say it is unnecessary barking.... well that is what my dad says, if you just say in real life what he does, idont mind, but my dad thinks its terrible. he is giogn out to get a $40 shock collar, which i pead him to get a high frequency collar (make a noice only a dog can here--- like a dog whistle), but my mom thru out the coupon .... it was only 10 bucks and i think that it is less painful than shock collars.

i beleive taht shock collars are unessesary, but hopefully he will learn fast not to bark.. so my dad can take that thing off of him quick... sorry i have no power here when it comes to a retired 21 military peti officer chief.

 

Well, from your discription of how much Rowdy (perfect name for a noisy pup!!) barks, I can't blame your dad for being annoyed. It sounds like he really has no training at all. I still think that e-collars won't be necessary and the loose leash thing I described earlier wld do the trick AND it will demonstrate that you are in control and the dominant one. With the e-collar, it may fix the barking problem, but since the correction is coming from 'nowhere' as far as Rowdy is concerned, your alpha position isn't going to be established at all and he's not going to listen to you when the next problem comes up.

Using the e-collar willy-nilly whenever he's doing something you don't like is going to make for a very neurotic dog. Since he's a former military man, he must appreciate the importance of discipline and consistency. THAT's what you need to enforce here.


Rather than spending $$ on a e-collar, spend $3.00 and get a choke or prong collar. Keep it on Rowdy while you're home (don't leave it on when he's alone - strangulation hazard) with a 6' leash. As soon as he starts barking, say "quiet" and pop/snap the leash so he feels the correction. When he's jumping up and down at the door, grab the leash, pop it and command "sit" and make him sit - or better yet have him go 'down' they can't bark really loud when they're down. Don't let the visitor pay any attention until he's sitting nicely and quietly. Giving attention when he's going full tilt only reinforces this behavior. Taking him outside to 'check out' the scene is only reinforcing the bad behavior.

IF your dad still insists on using the e-collar, then make absolutely sure that there is a verbal command before he's zapped. You need to give Rowdy the opportunity to stop before the correction is administered. He'll soon learn that if he shuts up after "quiet", the zap won't come.
Don't forget to praise like crazy WHEN he IS quiet.

I would look for a novice obedience class to tak him. You'll be amazed at how well behaved he will be all around when he learns basic commands AND listen to YOU.

Sorry I rambled on, but good luck.

 

I know they work great on keeping kids in line.....

 

Shrap, I can let you know of a site where they have 'designer' collars - those may work for those fashion consious older kids!

 

One more thing, Zuberok, if you get a e-collar, PLEASE don't get the bark collars or the cheaper e-collars. They are notorious for firing without reason totally freaking the dog out. It'll reduce the effectiveness too - just think about it, getting zapped for no rhyme or reason - they won't connect the zaps with the behavior you want to correct.

Get a good one which the handler controls the zaps via remote control. If you want brand recommendations I can give you a couple of good ones - but those aren't going to be the $40 ones.

 

.... okay. adult talk. lol. well, my dad explained to me that the word we will be using right before we shock him is "shock".... i trained rowdy to sit, laydown, spin, roll, shake, and follow me, but he has problems with 'come here" and "shut up" i am teaching him come here now, which when he doesnt i get out a towel snitch him with it.(i roll it up and snip it to make him feel the sharp, quick pain. he doesnt yelp or anyhting he just looks at me with big ol' fluffy eyes. i feel kinda guilty for diong this, but what if an emergency cam and he doesnt come hwen i want him to. BARKING well i just grab him up and hold him down until he sees the person who is making the noise.... which he still barks when he is running to them. :roll:

 

well i thank u, rowdy is my 8 year old puppy which is a big fuzz ball to say it is like a carpet running on carpet. are the $40 ones cheap??? being a kid i beleive taht that is pretty expensive!! :shock: well, my dad , the one he is getting is a remote control one that is when we call out "shock" and then shock him with it to let him know taht the buzz is coming to him.... i still dont like the idea though

 

Why "shock" ? Why not NO or Stop? Aren't these words you use when correcting him when he's misbehaving? If you're using too many different commands you may very well be confusing the poor dog.
Take Spot's advice, or better yet look into obedience classes and have your dad go with you to talk to person giving the classes. I'm sure the person would be willing to talk to you for a few minutes without you having to sign up for the class. If your dad won't take your word for it maybe he'll believe an adult who's a professional at dog training :wink: