Silkworms, possible link to a problem in Beardies?

I have throught long and hard about saying something about this. We do not want to panic people and also do not want to harm someone's business, but on the other hand when we are seeing patterns of ill dragons that might indicate a problem. I Think we have an obligation to say something.

As some of you know, for several months there has been a virus that has infected the silkworm colonies in the US. This virus is called grasserie. It causes symptoms in them like the old time called disease "dropsy" which is not really a disease, but a symptom and the silkworms die. We have not been able to get a lot of information about this virus out of the silkworm supplies and do invite any of them to talk to us about it, what I know I have learned online about it.

To make a long story short, we know of several people now with bearded dragons that are sick, showing some of the same symptoms such as affecting between the age of 1-5 years, gapping, gagging, bloated belly, slight cough, sometimes expelling fluids and respiratory infection. The animals have seen vets and they are stumped what is going on with them, in some cases they are finding a bacteria, but it is though to be a secondary infection. The majority of these dragons were fed silkworms as a main diet staple now of in the past few months. I am questioning if the sick silks (and they can still be infected even if not appearing ill or dying) can be affecting the hormone or enzyme levels of the dragons. From what I have read and understand, the silks really do not show the illness or die, until after the 4th moult, so if they are fed off before that, they can have the virus, but are not showing the signs of it.

That may not mean the silkworms have anything to do with the ill dragons, but until more is known about this and explained if there may be a relationship between the silkworms and the sick animals, we might want to be cautious using them as feeders at this time. I stopped using them in October, when no one could answer me if they might have a contrary effect on bearded dragons when they are used as feeders. Now that we are seeing several breeders or owners with sick dragons that the vets can not explain, I am more concerned, these may be dealing with another virus or bacteria totally unrelated to the silks, but it is something I think we should be aware of. I have talked with other forum moderators and they also are seeing the same things and are concerned there may be a relationship with the sick silkworms and the reptiles

Silkworms contain many enzymes that are good for other animals, which is why I question if they are ill, can it be having an effect on our dragons, right at the time that sexual mature dragons are cycling or having changes in their hormone levels.

Anyone that has any info on this virus or what effect it could have on animals that are fed ill worms, please let us know

 

Thanks for the info, Cheri. I was unaware of this... Is it just beardies that are affected by this? I feed these to my MHD, and my leos, as well.

 

Question: is this disease transfered through genes or contact? I hatch my silkies from eggs. They lasted until they cacooned and didn't die off...

 

Do you think that silks that are currently being hatched is also affected? I know that some silkworm suppliers have destroyed their infected stock and started fresh with new, 'healthy' eggs. I was under the impression that the disease has been taken care of - atleast that's what mulberry farms is telling me.

 

I know that Mulberry Farms had a huge problem like 2 months ago with their silkworms....is it possible to ask your friends who they orderd those silkworms from.......anyways Mulberry Farms did not ship or deal any silkworms after the first call of problems..I suggest evreybody order from Mulberry Farms they callled me as soon as they did not think the silkies were good quality and have kept me updated if they would be able to ship them to me this week

 

Their problem lasted awhile

 

Thanks for the tip on the name of the problem, CheriS! I've had silkies die from this same disease. I thought I was doing something wrong! If you've got a strong stomach, check out the pictures of diseased worms at http://www.wormspit.com/grasserie.htm I'm expecting a shipment of silkies this week. Now, I'm wondering...

 

If you have silks, let them raise up, cocoon and them turn into moths, if they make that ccycle, then they are most likely okay... but from what I am understanding, int he US, they are not making that cycle, they are being sold off as smalls and mediums before the disease affects them.

That is a a problem as if they do in fact have the virus, they should not be fed to animals

Its not just Mulberry, its EVERYONE...........Mulberry seems to supply to many other smaller breeders/raisers of silks and they all have had the same issues.

And its not been just a few months, its been since last fall

I do not believe that, the problem has been going on for several months and as far as we know, still is

 

I used to raise silkworms last year, but I stopped because so many of them kept dying, turning black, getting that black ooze everywhere, *shudder* it was too gross for me to handle. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong, but apparently maybe it wasn't me. I've been using crickets again for a while now, kept toying with the idea of going back to silkworms, but not I think I'll hold off until we learn more about this disease and it's effect on our dragons.

 

i dont have any breadies but i do have leos... is this spreading to leopard geckos too

 

No animals should be feed any feeders that are sick.

IT is unknown what those sick feeders may do to the other animals systems, but all the scientist and entomologist we have talked to warn against feeding insects with known virus or bacteria problems to other animals

 

ok thanks. how long will it take for them not to be sick any more... i mean will it ever be safe to feed silkies to your animals

 

The virus affect the more adult worms and some may cocoon before they die, but my understanding is that they will not turn to moths or reproduce.

So I would think once the suppliers are having adult worms and seeing a second generation, that they are safe or once someone sees their silks turning to moths and rrproducing, then the next generation is safe.

 

I inquired with Mulberry Farms about this today. They are aware of this story that is going around about possible 'contamination' in the silks.
They claim that it is unsubstantiated and they have many reptile breeders as customers who have had no problems with their animals.
They, of course, assured me that if there were any risks, they would contact the buyers as well as stop selling.
I do believe that Mulberry Farms wld not knowingly sell bad worms which wld harm our reptiles and according to them, the virus epidemic that occurred several months ago have now been eradicated in their place.

I also did find out that they do not breed their own eggs. They just hatch the eggs they get from somewhere else. They would not tell me where they get their eggs.

 

The business of raising silkworm eggs is very exacting - it's typically done in special farm setups called grainages. Most of the eggs that we get here are polyhybrids - the grainage maintains separate pure genetic lines, and then crosses them in a specific pattern to create the hybrid. This gives them the most desirable characteristics for a specific situation - like eating the artificial food.

You can see more information about the Haiyan Silkworm Eggs Factory at: http://www.silkegg.com/

 

Too cool, wormspit! It's hard to imagine entire economies built around silkworms and their silk in other parts of the world. We're so tunnel-visioned about them as feeders.

Is it possible that the infected silkworms are simply less nutritious or vitamin deficient due to the stress of fighting the virus? If so, then the deficiency might lead to a weakening/decline of the beardies eating the infected silkies as a diet staple, leaving the beardies susceptible to secondary infections.

 

Lovely pictures. I think I now view Crix in a whole new light.

 

Hi guys, My name is Pam Reid and I own Silkworm Wholesale. I am trying to help my coustomers by informing them before they buy worms and or eggs for that matter that any home that has had the grasser disease in it is at risk of infection healthy worms just for the simple fact that the virus can linger around ones home for a long time. So that means when you purchase new worms or eggs and they are 'virus free' you still run the risk of infecting them from your own home. Their are only 2 silkworm importers in to the US as far as I know. My self and one other company. I do not know this for a fact but just as far as I can tell. The eggs seem to grow great in most places but some people seem to be haveing reacquiring infections. I my self have moved my business to a all new location. I have not started selling worms sence the move due to lack of time. I would be pleased to try to help anyone out with any problems they might have BUT I own only chameleonsbe. The best advice I can give is to move your worm area to a now part of the home if possible.

 

Sorry. 'new area' I have never been a good speller. LOL

 

wormspit

Correct me if I am wrong, but you rasie them for their silk don't you and this virus has also hit you, but from reading your site, your are trying to control it with cleaning. Nice site by the way.

For others that would like to see his site, which has a nice article on the virus with photos:
http://www.wormspit.com/grasserie.htm

We have been giving this site out to many breeders and owners that have had problems with their silks and dragons. It has helped them understandwhat is going on in the dieoffs they are having in their silkworms they are buying or raising.