Bearded Dragon's can use SAND !!!!!

For all you that say SAND is no good for the Bearded Dragon read this please

ZooMed Vita-Sand
All natural vitamin-fortified calcium carbonate substrate increases calcium delivery in desert species of reptiles. Fortified with vitamins and beta carotene for increased health benefits. Veterinarian approved substrate is offered in a variety of colors.
All natural vitamin-fortified calcium carbonate substrate increases calcium delivery in desert species of reptiles.
Fortified with vitamins and beta carotene for increased health benefits.
Does not contain fat-soluble vitamins, which can be toxic in large doses.
Ultra-fine grade to prevent impaction from overconsumption.
No artificial colors or color sealers.
Excellent substrate for bearded dragons, uromastyx lizards, monitors, geckos (including leopard geckos), and desert tortoises.


So thank you ALL for thinking that I was trying to hurt my HEALTHY Dragon by using SAND :roll: .. I have many pet's and my Dragon is still my little baby girl and I would NEVER hurt her in any way possible if I thought that the sand would hurt her even in the least I would have stopped a long time ago with it. My Dragon is fine with sand and so will all of your's IF you wanted to use this SAND and not no park or beach sand. So PLEASE before you all think you know what is best for OTHER people's Dragon's and what is not just because you do not use something look into it first.

 

They say that, do a little test... take some of the sand and put it on a dish... and see how much it clumps up... now if the clump is big.. and sticks togther well imagin that in ur beardie... slowly painfully killing it

Im gona buy a bag and do my own test now... I'll tape it to prove to everyone sand is bad,

BTW.... We do look into these things.. breeders.. vets.. Owners everyone i talk to that has experiance with these beatiful animal say sand is bad... Espically the calcium sand

 

i'm sorry, but there are many ppl on this site and many articles out there that disagree with you. I think it's safe to say it's FACT that calci-sand, 'reptile' and 'desert' sands are extremely dangerous. The ONLY sand sutiable is washed, sifted playsand for adult beardies or 'playboxes'

Have you read ANY of these articles?
http://coloherp.org/cb-news/archive/vet-med/CalciSand.php
http://www.vareptilerescue.org/substrates.html
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...RINT&A=1419
""Do not use walnut or corncob, kitty litters of any kind, wood shavings, gravel, sand, "Calci-Sand", rock, pebbles, bark, "lizard litters", or "iguana-approved bark" or any other particulate matter as substrate. No matter how closely you watch your iguana (keep in mind that you will not be watching them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!), they will end up ingesting them, on purpose or accidentally.''

to site just a FEW that aren't links to other forums [not allowed] bashing the stuff.
Plus, you said your first beardie ONLY lived to 6! projected life is 7-20 YEARS. you said you buy from breeders, so there is no excuse for it to only live 6 years and perfectly 'healthy' on calci-sand.
Finally, you are quoting the packaging, so what?? that's what THEY tell YOU, not some third party. They are trying to sell the product, why would they tell you the truth? I know your heart my be in the right place, but you are grossly misinformed.

Like i said earlier, nothing i say will change your mind, but i will at least try without being disrespectful
-Sara out

 

Another thing to add on... if pet stores wernt so comercial and Knew what they sell we wouldnt have this problerm with people saying Oh yah Cali-sand is great... well on this site... people for calisand to people who appose the use of it is like 1-Everyone else...

This fourm educates people on the care of herps... and the people Educating are people with EXPERIANCE... and know what there talking about... so before u start bashing us for giving wrong information do more research and read the articles clarinet45, gave you.. then get back to us...

 

Excuse me Clarinet, but you seem to judge my Dragon that I have now to my other one and they are not from the same litter, family or anything. I purchased my other Dragon from a store (not that that matters) and this one I have now from a breeder in NYC that also uses SAND for their Dragon's and they have been breeding for a while now. You can think what you wish that is your choise , but do not ever judge me and the way my other Dragon was to the way my one is now. I am sure that some of your pet's now or then have not lived to expected years and either has many other people's. Man you have a lot of nerve. do what you want with your pet's and let others do what they choose to do. and about you saying you do not want to be disrespectful oh please you know nothing about me to be that way. I would never disrespect one I do not know I am too old for all that junk and yes my Parents rasied me better then that. say what you want and be disrespectful if you choose to be , but you wont get feedback from me . this is a web site to talk about OUR pet's not argue about who is right and who is wrong of the way they choose to care for their pet's. my Dragon is fine and if I thought she was hurting in anyway I would change thing's, but she is fine. She eat's great and poo's fine . She sleep's and is awake just like a normal Dragon should be. She goes to the vet's , gets her nails cut etc etc. My Dragon is most likely more healthy then some of the other's on here and i USE SAND and they don't . Enough said shhesh --

 

Freaky Pete first of all I aint bashing anyone. you do not know what a bash is. I simply said that i use sand for my Dragon and you may not, but also like i have stated now 4 times if i saw something going wrong with my Dragon i would have stopped and changed the sand to something different a long time ago. But i do not see why i should just because some of you on here is against it. there are a lot more Dragon owners in the world then us on here so what you are going to go and tell them all that sand is bad when most likely they have used it for a long time also ? i mean ok here : have you ever had something go wrong with your Dragon to make you say that it is not good for them OR did you just read about it on some site's ? NO ONE really knows for sure what is good for an animal and what is not. Like someone said in a different part of this site The Dragon has not even been in captivity for a long time and all of a sudden everyone thinks they know everything that there is to know about a Dragon ? What do you think they live on in the wild ? SAND they are desert animal's they do not live on artificial grass or anything you have in your home for them. Come on LOL. They have lived in the wild for a long time and have survived out there and if you do go see them in the wild what ever country that is then you will see they live on sand and dirt. Watch Animal Planet once in awhile you will see Steve Irwin's show and sometimes you will see the Dragon on his show . He knows more about the Dragon then all of us put together even though LOL he did get bit on the nose by a Dragon , but when he layed on the ground to get a closer look at the Dragon he was on sand. So thank's yet again. Go find them in the wild you will see what they live on and how they really live.

 

excuse me, but i am probably much younger than you and i have learned [thanks mods] how to behave myself on a forum. What is the name/ email of the breeder? certainly not one i've heard from or would buy from if they use calci-death.
I planted something and only watered with milk. It grew and it looks healthy, so it's fine, right? many ppl tell him to use water and fertilizer, but i know better. It died last week, but it's OK, it was a couple years old anyway and came from a flea market. I have a new plant now from a nursery, i will treat it the same and hope it lives as long as my other one.
thats what you sound like to me.
Site me ONE reliable, thrid party source that LIKES calci-death and i will beg for your forgiveness.

 

1) they DON'T live on sand in the wild. This is Australia:
http://www.outoftheway.info/images/outofth...s-australia.jpg
http://www.green-globe.com/photos/land10.jpg
http://www.claudio.ch/Album/Australia2005/20050401/land.jpg
HARD-packed scrubland. They are INLAND dragons.
2) number 1 is VOID because captive dragons in the US are mentally, physically, genetically, and biologically VERY far away from the wild. have you done any research? seriously, you claim to have kept dragons for years, but didn't join the forum until this month??

you didn't despute the fact that you were only quoting the packaging, not a very convincing arguement to say the least. you have yet to back up your claim like i have. You're being very hardheaded.

 

hehe, i love Animal planet, but they are a great source of entertainment, not always the best source of information on which to base the care of a captive bred PET.

 

I read an interesting article in the 2006 Annual USA reptile magazine talking about different care methods, heres a quote from the magazine and I think each member who reads its should take it to heart and not just listen to what they are told is wrong or right. Here it is "A comment I've heard from many clients is ," I've read all I can find about thid species, and everyone tells me to doe something different!" Their confusion is understandable, but it comes with a simple answer: Do what works best for you and your pet.
If two different experts have two different husbandry methods, is one right , and one wrong? Chances are they are both right. They've adjusted their captive care methods to what works best for them and their animals, and you need to be prepared to do the same" by Tom Greek, MS, DVM.

Sorry if i didnt quote it precisely i tried my best. basically what its saying is what works for someone may not work for another.even if it is proved to be bad that doesnt necessarily mean it will have a negative effect on your animal. They may be the same species but each dragon is different, some may eat the sand some may not. The chances odds and all dont matter, what matters is what your comfortable with and what you want. Its your animal and its your job to care for it. So if you use sand you may or may not be wrong, watch your dragon and see how it reacts and its droppings. Make sure it isnt eating the sand. I personally use sand and have not had any problems with it. I feed my dragon crickets in a delicup container so he wont get a mouthfull of sand when trying to catch a cricket. I a comfortable using sand because I know my dragon and I know how he eats, I watch him and make sure he doesnt get large amounts of sand in him. Also I think he likes the sand he enjoys digging, and sleeping in a little whole that he digs. So use sand if you feel like it, just be aware of the risks. I am not saying every dragon wont get impacted because some dragons will, just do what you are comfortable with.

 

Did you not read anything i posted to you before? If you are going to ignore the blatant facts then you are just being reckless.

I gave you a link to a scientific study that was done PROVING that none of those sands are digestable. Have you never heard of false advertising before?

Do you really think NO ONE on this site knows what they are talking aboiut? We are trying to offer you good advice that will help youir dragon, why cant you just accept that?

As far as sand goes, like i said before, the safest kind of sand to use is washed, screen fine grain playsand, it is generally agreed upon that vita-sand and calci-sand are bunk products. It is very important that you understand the distinction between sand and calci-sand/vita-sand. Sand (as in playsand) is generally considered a suitable substrate, its not "sand" that is the issue. The stuff you are using, however, is not sand. if you aren't going to listen to us then thats fine, but know that you hsve been warned and you ARE taking a big risk with your dragons life.

 

As people on here have said, calci-sand and similar sand substrates aren't digestable as they are advertised as being. It s a very sad fact that the manuacturers promote these benefits, against scientific evidence to the contrary, simply to justify charging extortionate money for something which not only has no health benefits, but has been shown time and again to be detrimental to the health of beardies.

I am a firm believer in reading all the available evidence and then making an informed decision. And if after reading all the info, you want to use calci-sand people shouldn't slate you for it if you honestly think you're making the right decision, they just feel it is their responsibility on this forum to help prevent people from making a mistake that could cost the life of their lizard. But it is your lizard, not theirs and if you want to use a more risky substrate and take the chance i hope it works out ok, because no-one here likes to think of any beardies dying unnecessarily, and that is why they push their opinions about this sand onto others. They are just thinking about the dragons - they have one track minds I think.

I currently use playsand for some of my beardies, but I started off using calci-sand and soon changed my mind because I personally had negative experiences that were a direct result of keeping my precious babies on calci-sand.

As a result my female (who is not a beautifully healthy 4 year old) almost died, and it cost me £90 ($160) to get her better.

People who say that those who use calci-sand are trying to kill there beardies are being awfully melodramatic. There do seem to be so many posts, and very little evidence of personal experience to confirm these suggestions. I tried putting a poll up to see how many people had personally experienced impaction with any type of sand, and everyone seems to know someone who it has happened to but it hasn’t happened to them personally. But if you forget about the risk of impaction for one second – there are several other health risks that I have experienced.

But I can honestly say I have nearly lost dragons because of calci-sand – which I bought on the advice of the pet-shop, and hadn’t read any negative comments about at that time. If you still choose to use it just be very careful and watch your beardie as close as possible, and realise if something goes wrong, the fake sand may be a cause and get them to the vet asap.

I would also like to point out that this weekend I am off to my local b & q for shelf liner/ linoleum shop to buy that, or maybe some nice slate effect floor tiles, and I am going to almost completely remove the sand I have currently because I personally am not very happy with how all my babies have been on this substrate. Mt rankins in particular just doesn't like it (she has told me ok). I would have done this by now but in removing the sand from one of my vivs a few days ago I overheated my vacuum cleaner (oops)

 

Here is something for the sand users to read over - my friend Steve posted this on another Forum and I thought I would share.

 

I asked Steve for a copy of his experiment and his results. It is pretty scientific but just read over it - more than enough proof in that to make me stay away from the Sand.

 

It is your choice to keep your beardie on calci-sand. As long as you are aware of the risks, you can keep your beardie on what ever you want. 7 years is not old for a beardie.

 

I am just going to say this...and please read it carefully, slowly, word by word so you understand what I am saying.

<u>Sometimes</u>, beardies do NOT get impacted from sand. However, that is SOMETIMES. <u>Most times</u>, sand, no matter what kind, poses impaction problems in beardies.

If you absolutely MUST use sand because your godsent breeder told you to, do us all a favour and go out and buy washed playsand. Flush that calci-vitasand crap down the toilet...
Not attacking anyone in this post, but because obviously one person believes it is safe, and everyone else doesnt, let him/her try it. I feel so bad for the beardie, but what we say is not going to change the way this person is thinking. Once he/she gets bogged down in vet bills and/or a dead beardie, hopefully he/she will heed what some of the more experienced people here have to say.

That being said, I do NOT recommend using sand (nor am I encouraging it). Of any type. I'd suggest non adhesive shelf liner, or tightly woven indoor/outdoor carpet from lowes/home depot.

 

not to mention if your animal dies where will you go to get another HMMMM the same store giving them yet more money
just a thought

jami

 

They learned from other peoples mistakes.

 

When I first got Spike I had her on washed playsand very fine grain. I did the wet the sand thing to make sure it didnt expan and it didnt look like it did. Well about 2 months later enstead of a poo and the white poo i now understand to be thier pee there was one big thing of SAND! Barley no poo and pee just sand... So I would not recomend any sand not even washed play sand. But like DAGGERLOVER said some people must learn the hard way and there is nothing we can do about this. So I would say that we should ALL back off and leave this guy/gal alone because we obviously cant chage their mind. I really dont want the mods to have to lock another post, so please leave this person alone.
Amanda

 

yeah but whose mistakes? :roll: