Chameleons Tounge keeps hanging out!! Help Please

Hi I have a veiled chameleon which is only about 6 months or so old. Ive had him already since beginning of May and I am really freaking out now. His tounge just started hanging out this morning. I woke up to him just sittin there with it hanging out. As soon as I opened the cage door he retracted it back in but it keeps coming out every little while. I misted some water in the air already about 3 times and when he feels the water (or tastes it) he will retract it back in to drink water. Right now he has had it in his mouth for about 10-20 minutes but im afraid hes gonna keep letting his tounge slide out of his mouth and hang like hes been doing all morning. Please if anyone has advice let me know ,I'm trying to scrape up cash before the vet closes to take him in but I know times critical. I will gladly take pictures if he does it again to show you what i mean. please help guys..... i dont wanna loose him

 

ok he did it again i just took two pictures.....one when it was out and the other right after i sprayed some water he retracted it back in.... lemme try and post em on here

 

Oh, I am so sorry to say it, but your little chameleon appears to have severe metabolic bone disease. You can see in his legs and elbows.. the looped joints and obvious broken bones. His eye and casque don't look all that right either. You can try getting him looked at by a vet and starting him on heavy doses of calcium, but, honestly, he looks really bad. If you decide to try and save him, you will need to take a serious look at some husbandry issues, mainly lighting and supplementation. Whatever you do.. get him to the vet quick, he won't last long with his tongue hanging out, and he is probably suffering pretty bad right now. Let us know what you plan to do.. most anyone here can give you a run down on UVB lighting and supplementation.

 

ok thank you for your help i seriously have been taking care of him very good i thought really but i know he has fallen down twice the past few days when he was trying to get some crickets from some leaves nearby i thought he was ok but i guess not....man i dint know he had broken bones he seemed to walk alright but this is my first cham so i wouldnt be able to compare with old experiences.... but i have my credit card im willing to go in debt on whatever i can do to save him, im taking him to the banfield hospital thing in pets mart right now after i try to get him out of his cage without hurting him anymore than i already have..... honestly heika, what doyou think his chances are of survival if i ido everything that there can be done to help him? from a scale of 1-10 , 10 being the highest chance of survival? if i dont respond its because i alreayd left but i will update as soon as i come in from the vet. thanks again for your help heika

 

update: I took my little guy in .........for one, they are gonna take x-rays but they examined him and dont think there are any broken bones, the back legs were more than healthy but the front arms needed another review but they doubt any broken bones but there is a chance of slight fracture which could be recovered from if the x-rays prove this true. Also the main things were I stoopidly wasnt giving him enough calcium in the feedings and the chameleon began feeding off the calcium in his bones which left him weak and resulted into laziness/weakness and tounge hanging out. Also the heat in my cage was about 10 degrees under the limit. I had the basking temperature only at 90 degrees when the vet recommended more up at 100 degrees basking and no lower than 85 at teh bottom of the enclosure....another stupid thing I messsed up on. Regardless he is looking like hes hanging in there but who knows... he does have a very fair chance of recooping through this but the vet said there is no guarantees and it will depend on how he can recover from his low immune system. They are giving him calcium drops instead of shots because they were afriad he was too small and didnt wanna (I guess) miss locating the right spot to inject it in his belly because if they missed it would cause internal bleeding. I asked if they could keep him there till Monday so I can set up his cage better and buy the correct and neccessary equipment for his home. With all the syrup and fluids and x rays and extended stay it came out to a whopping bill but I already paid it with all my cash i have left , I really hope he pulls through, itll all be worth it. :|

 

What type of lighting are you using on your cage? You need to pick up a UVB light.. like, a high quality Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 or 10.0. Glad to hear you took him in, poor guy.

 

I had a 100W Zoo Med Baskin spot lamp on a 8.5" fixture, and a 26W 5.0 Compact UVB Repti Glo bulb on a 8.5" fixture for the day time and at night i put on a little 75W Exo Terra Neodymium "Moonlight" lamp bulb on a 6.5" fixture. Now I bought a 150W bulb and tried it out last nite for my basking light and it increased the temperatures up drastically BUT the bottom of the cage towards the door is still only heating up to 81 degrees (this is at the very bottom of the rocks all the way at the front of the door where it swings open). I really only have today and early tomorrow afternoon to tinker around with the cage till I pick him up from the vet, do you think this lighting will be sufficient Heika? I will gladly buy another stronger bulb or fixture or even turn the little 6.5" night light fixture into another smaller basking or heating bulb to help heat things up if it will be better but Im not sure if I should even change it more than just what I have done with the 150W bulb. What do you think? I can take picture if you want. BTW my cage is 2X3' , its more of a vertical homemade wooden enclosure with plexiglass wooden swinging door in the front. It is 16.5" width (from the back of the enclosure to the front).

With the new set up the basking temp is at 100 degrees easily a little hotter directly under the bulb mabye 105 or so, the temp of the rest of the cage is at a steady 90 a little warmer nearer the light and drops to 81 the lowest near the front door away from the light. Sorry about all the questions I know Im asking alot, I appreciate everything you are helping me with already.

 

Here are some pics of the cage itself before I put anything in it but it gives you a idea of how my set up is with the lights

 

thats a great looking cage,but with the size im concerned the UV bulb your using my not radiate deep enough in the enclosure.You should upgrade one of you hoods and replace the 5.0 with a Mercury Vapor bulb.It will provide adequate UV penetration,and control your heating problem.Not to mention is the best available UV source..Just make sure its 12" from your Cham..Good luck

 

Thanks Surf, yeh I had doubts about it penetrating all through the cage with my current setup, I guess I was just waiting for someone to tell me to upgrade it. I'm about to step out to a local pet store and ask about that Mercury Vapor Bulb, is there a specific one or wattage I should look for? Oh and I got the 12" thing down I measured it before I bought the little guy and everything in the cage is not closer than 12" away from the top of the enclosure.

 

Ive heard good things about the Exo Terra bulb..it comes in 125 and 160w i believe..You would have to use your best judgment as far as temps..Chances are you wont need a basking bulb, ect

 

dont chams also need good air ventilation? it looks like there wouldnt be much if any in that enclosure, as great as it looks mind you. although I dont think that would have contributed to your chams MBD so I will stop talking haha

 

Here is an article about MBD...
http://adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html

Here are some sites with good articles and information on them...
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/skintests.htm#discussion
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502074401/....Vitamin.A.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/
http://adcham.com/

I have seen chameleons with MBD about as bad as yours looks pull through and live for almost as long as a normal life span.

Once you get your chameleon back on track, you need to make sure that your husbandry is correct to keep her there.

Exposure to UVB light from direct sunlight or from UVB tube lights (that does not pass through glass) will allow your chameleon to produce vittamin D3 which will allow the chameleon to use the calcium in its diet. The chameleon should be able to sit within about a foot of a UVB tubelight...and the light should be changed about every 6 months.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion...thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Its important to have good hydration and to feed the insects a nutritious diet and gutload them before feeding them to your chameleon.

Most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so its important to dust the insects before feeding them to your chameleon with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings.

To ensure that they get enough vitamins, I also dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene won't build up in the chameleon's system...but there is controversy about whether chameleons can convert beta carotene to vitamin A...so some people give them a little preformed vitamin A. Preformed vitamin A can build up in the system and excesses of it can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

D3 from SUPPLEMENTS can also build up in the system and cause problems...so don't overdo it. Because my chameleons only get UVB from tube lights, I dust lightly twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder.

If the tongue continues to be able to be retracted, it hopefully it will improve with the correction of the MBD. If it hangs out and can't be retracted though, it will need likely to be amputated or the chameleon won't be able to eat without chewing it.

Good luck!

 

150 watts is a lot for an enclosed box. Personally, I think a mercury vapor bulb shining into your mainly enclosed box may heat it up too much. What are your temps getting to? Is it cool enough there to warrant a night bulb for heat?

Heika

 

I think you need a new cage... it doesn't appear to have any vents and glass isn't good for chams. They shouldn't see a reflection of themselves because they become stressed.

 

The temps right now get to 100-104ish under the basking lamp a foot away from the bulb, under neath it it gets to about 90ish throughout the rest of the cage and at the very bottom where the substrate is it gets to about 81degrees the lowest which is where the door opens up towards the front of the cage away from the light. At night I usually never have to put on any type of warming light because i try to drop the temperature and it is always at a 68-72 level with no lights on in the cage So i thought that would be a good temperature for him to rest at night in. Is that ok?

Oh and Summoner, their are two footlong vents on each of the two top corners, I could have added more and still can easily cut out more vents or make a screen siding to my enclosure but i chose not to because the enclosure is on top of my dresser in my room and I felt with my ceiling fan and/or my airvent to my room is on then it might have drastically caused changes or unwanted "cold breezes" into the cage which might be too cold for him. I have seen several type of enclosures like mine from local pet stores which have had their chameleons for years living and breeding healthy So i just based mine off their design. But by all means if there really is something I should change please tell me because I dont wanna do any more harm to the little guy. I thought it was ok tho...? Oh and the front door is plexi glass I didnt put a screen because of the same "breeze" reason since the fan would be in front of it (ceiliing fan). I tested it out before when i first got my chameleon and watched for days for him to tense up, change colors, or simply even stare at the glass door and he never once did anything of concern. I think its becasue he doesnt see his reflection , hasn't noticed it, or mabye all the leaves i put blocking the glass door on all his branches he climbs that are close to the door so he won't see his reflection. Also as an additional offtake I mist the door with water when ever I see it needs it so it can dry up some water spots (kinda make it dirty like windshields to cars after rain) and it creates a little smudgy looking plexi glass which is extremely difficult and or impossible to see a reflection when it is like that.

I know my cage isn't nearly the best but I thought it would be alot more fun and better for him than the other cages I ran into, but thanks for everyones input and keep it coming if I'm not getting the hint or still doing something wrong guys. thanks alot everyone. I get him back today i'm about to pick him up mabye in about 4 hours so i'll update today. I'm off to clean out his cage and re arrange his branches and buy that new uvb bulb. I'm getting that 10.0 bulb its like $50!! man I swear lighting seems to be the most expensive part of his environment. :shock: oh well...

oh and kinyonga thanks for the sites and information I'm gonna read up on all that today. And I hope he pulls through just as well as those other ones....thanks for the best wishes.

 

Well this should be the last update , very bad news came in this morning, chamillionaire passed this morning a few hours ago. I left him there since saturday and they were forced the past 36 hours to began injecting him with a few different shots due to lack of energy compared to when i first brought him in and it just didnt help him through.
Thanks for everyones help but I'm off to pick him up for a burial but just to warn any new chameleon owners out there.....double,triple,quadruple check lighting, diet, and medical signs of your chameleon EVERYday and don't think bad stuff like this can't happen to your pet or sneak up on him because their health can change very quick for the worse. Thanks for everyones help and suggestions.

 

So sorry to hear you lost him, Rob.

 

So sorry to hear your bad news.

 

Sorry to hear man :-(