So, I plan to get a BP sometime.....soon I hope(most likely around June)and I've heard a few things about enclosures. I've heard a 40G is good, but I've planned on getting a 55G. i've recently heard you can house 1 in a 30G about, and 2 in a 55 or 60. I would like to get 2 eventually and I could start off with 1 in a 55G and add another one later I'm thinking. Would it be alright to house 2 in a 55? and one in a 30 or 40? You don't really need weight to the enclosure either, right? I was planning on getting a standard tank, but I've seen ones with added height. Since this is already about the setup for when I get it, what are reccommended products for them from you BP owners?(hides, substrate, lighting, heating)and the usual temps/humidity-are they more tropical or desert animals? I've heard both..but, I've thought they need a somewhat high humidity. Do you guys reccommend me starting off with a smaller, younger one-or an older, bigger one? Also, male or female(if there's a temperment difference) Any answers/suggestions are appreciated
well, I have mine in a 20g tall at the moment and it is about 2 feet long. I am upgrading him to a 30g soon. I believe the rule is that the snake has to be less then the length and width of the tank combined. I keep him on aspen bedding of course and I have a log, a upside down flower pot, and a bamboo plant. I also have a heat lamp and a UTH. For the humidity, I spray him with a misting bottle (plus I live in florida so the humidity is kinda high here anyways). I found it easier to convince my mom to get a baby first. Her confidence has sort of grown with the snake, and now she doesn't mind him. Unless you willing to probe them, it is impossible to tell the sex of the animal when young so unless your buying a special morph from a breeder you just have to pick one and hope for the best. You can buy one as an adult, but its always nice to watch them grow up =)
It is nice to watch them grow up and I am panning on buying a morph-def from a Reptile show, so they're usually marked. I think I'll start with a full sized tank, so I don't have to upgrade it when it grows. I spray my anoles with a misting bottle too and recently got a Repti Fogger, that works better-they're(the BP's)humidity doesn't have to be that high though, right? Like about 60%? Sounds like you have nice, creative decor too. my parents don't have a problem though with getting one-they want one too! lol They don't need direct light though, right? and are they diurnal or nocturnal? Their care is somewhat like for a leo in some ways, same basic supplies(UTH, heat lamp, though not bedding) I've heard aspen bedding is the best so they can burrow and all and I think it's easier to deal with than the bark I have for my lizards too(I hope at least). Well, thanks
Ball Pythons are from Africa - they certainly aren't exactly tropical species and really only need ambient humidity just a little higher than that of the average household. Usually the water dish alone is adequate to bring the humidity to their ideal range (~65%) but aquariums can make this somewhat tricky having so much ventilation. You'll likely have to play with it a bit, see how the snake sheds and behaves. You shouldn't need to mist daily and a fogger would be wayy overkill - the most I do for mine is flip the water bowl when I see they are blue to aid in shedding. Ideally you want a warm end that ~90 degrees F and a cool end thats roughly 79 degrees (give or take) As long as the warm end is allowed to reach 87-91 degrees or so, the cool end can drop a little lower as the snake will thermoregulate to meet it's bodys needs. This can be accomplished with a UTH, just be sure to monitor temps accurately and keep it on a dimmer or thermostat to prevent spikes in the warmer months and keep things comfortable... you are absolutely correct about being similar to leo care, temp, lighting, and humidity needs are almost identical = ) They are a nocturnal species and incredibly reclusive. No light is needed and be sure to have adequate hiding spaces. They like to feel secure and cramped; so opaque hides that are large enough for them to squeeze into and sit comfortably are best. I prefer aspen bedding; I like the way it looks, its easy to clean, relatively inexpensive. Just be sure to avoid getting the rodent wet if feeding in their enclosure so that substrate doesn't stick to it heavely. Now: male or female is entirely up to you. The only major difference is the overall size... males do not attain the same lengths and weights as females under most circumstances. Its very rare to find adult males that exceed 1500 grams while this is the bare minimum weight a female must be before breeding. So if you desire a slightly smaller specimen (and generally less expensive) a male might be a better option for you. But both behave identically and can be handled - although each BP is an individual. Some are very shy, some are very inquisitive, and some are nippy (although the latter is bit of a rarity I've found and most any can calm down with handling). I'm with Brian in that I would buy a juvenile - its just a nice experience raising them and its also a cheaper option for you. They are also much more readily available at shows; particularly morphs if that is what you are interested in. As for the enclosure: I'm not as fond of the 55 gallon aquarium because it is limited in width. I run into this problem when discussing tank sizes for bearded dragons as well... it might be okay for an adult male but an adult female might be a little cramped. Despite these guys liking things a little on the cramped side, I'd say 12" is really cutting it close to being too narrow when curled up. I also wouln't house two of them together, they are best kept solitary so if you want two, I'd recommend two enclosures. I personally prefer bins for housing my ball pythons - they are lightweight, cheap, and the snakes thrive brilliantly in them. I use 41 qt sweaterbox bins for adults, 28qt for males, 16qt for juveniles and 6qt shoebox bins for babies. That being said - height is not a requirement for these guys. They are terretrial, and while they may climb a little if given the chance, I've had no issues using caging that is only 6" in height. Aquariums are bittersweet - they look nice, allow you to view your pet, and can work very well as homes. The issue is the cost, weight, and fact that Ball Pythons are very shy animals. If you want to use an aquarium, I would consider wrapping a background around the back and sides of the cage, and be sure that there is plenty of hiding spaces for the little guys. Other more predominant issues include their ability to hold heat and humidity, which require a little more effort to remedy. ^^ Based on the above - all ball pythons are different, but if you note feeding trouble (feel free to address us in the future if you encounter problems, we'll be here! = ) you might need to decrease the size of the enclosure. While I'm always an advocate for "the bigger the better" in housing for most species of reptile, ball pythons really seem to thrive better in slightly smaller homes. A 40 gallon 'breeder' aquarium will be great for an adult - but unless you have lots of hides it might be overwhelming for a juveniles. You can always try it out, and if you encounter problems, a simple and cheap solution can be a move to a plastic sterilte container or something similar. If you are thinking of getting one at one of the Ohio shows, let me know! I have a couple of breeders in mind who I am more fond of doing business with than others = )
Wow, that came out longer than anticipated. I have a problem with being a bit too thorough at times = )
Thanks!Are the special breeder tubs plastic too? I've heard they're good and you can get racks I know-if you have a few of them-Could I put a heat light on a plastic tub? maybe by cutting a hole big enough for the fixture and putting mesh just in that area to hold it? Though, I don't think it would be needed in a tub come to think of it, since it's all solid and the UTH should be pretty good for it. I have seen a 40G aquarium that was pretty wide, but with much added height...I do prefer the aquariums, but they are more costly and all like you said though more presentable. The bins are clear, right? I would like to see how it's doing and they can't escape that easy, right? I had planned getting a bigger aquarium with a screen lid and putting a few locks on it. Though, I do know the lids will lock on bins-though I also know snakes are masters at escaping. I do plan at getting it at an Ohio show(most likely Cleveland)and I would like to know the breeders you reccommend There is this one australian guy I've seen a few times that I was very much considering buying it from(I think PT reptiles).He has a very nice selection-all morphs pretty much-though somewhat costly, but they are all very well tempered. Then, there's always the breeders with decent prices and good snakes, but you don't want to buy from them because of the way they act...I try to buy from people who are informative and friendly. When do they become full grown? At a few years or what? Most of the one's I've seen that I like are a year or two old, but there were a few I saw that were just a week old I loved!(though they were pieds and $1000+) Thanks Jeff! I know you're pretty much the snake guy lol and I didn't think it was too long-I just read it through until the end and it didn't bother me, I get carried away too sometimes I also found one of the breeding boxes-would it work? It's 16.3” x 10.4” x 5.8” and a large by Exo-Terra-seems pretty nice, but if there's any better one's or better places I could get them it would be great to know
I can't recall the guy's name with that Aussie-esk accent, but he always seemed pretty classy to me as well. The one who usually has a fair selection of Kenyan Sand Boas as well right? I've done a trade and purchased a couple of animals from Eric Erb and he's a great guy - he sells heat tape, Rancos and plastic hides; I believe he's "Reptile Tubs." Also heard good things about John Rieger Jr though I've never made a transaction with him....Not a big fan of John Kick... his animals always seem very cramped and I've heard rumors of mites in many of the animals. And Tim Koppenhofer of Special K Reptiles is iffy... he's a big bulls***er and I've heard mixed things about his animals; if interested in something from him (he's usually got a big table in the middle with his wife) I would really look the animal over well and ensure it looks healthy and everything is well. Obviously do this for any animal from anyone, but I've heard good and bad from Tim. The breeder bins are generally plastic; most are relatively clear although a couple of brands are opaque. You'd probably be a fan of either Sterilites (can purcahse at Target or similar stores) or the clear Vision tubs just as an example. There are several options, although no plastic is as clear as an aquarium so that decision will ultimately be up to you. You're the one whose going to be looking at it every day = ) and definetly find a bin that locks if not using a rack...I didn't really consider that lol. They certainly are masters of escape! 40 gallon 'breeders' are 36" x 18" x 18" or so if I recall correctly, might be a little off on the height. I'd say a 36" x 18" footprint is ideal for an adult ball python and the height really doesn't matter. If you can find an enclosure that is 36" x 18" x 12" that would be great... I'd bet they might sell plastic or PVC caging roughly that size with a front opening door. You may be interested in housing such as this also (or building your own, depending on you or your dad's abilites and budget). I still always recommend a UTH or Heat Tape attached to a heat control (dimmer or thermostat) over lights. Snakes do better with belly heat, and this species in particular doesn't mind things on the darker side...not to mention you save a little on the electric bill with them. Ball Pythons usually become full grown after 2-3 years. It depends on genetics, the feeding frequency (and rate they will actually feed, heh), what is being fed, and husbandry in general. As long as the animal is alert and healthy, they will grow at whatever pace works best for them. I've raised some pretty average snakes and some snakes that grow exceptionally slow or fast...for example, I had a male bumblebee who at 2yrs of age only weighed 450 grams, and a lesser pastel male who weighed 600 grams after 1 year, each raised in absolutely identical environments.
So, the aussie guy is from PT reptiles like I thought, here's his "website"(it's basicly just like the pamphlet he handed out the times I saw him lol, but he seems pretty cool-he even does shows for mostly kids where he tells info about them and shows them)- http://www.ptreptiles.com/ The Eric Erb guy you talk about I know! I bought some heat tape for him and some of those nice black hides last time I was there-he also has a nice selection of snakes. I think for the heat source for the BP I'll just get some heat tape from him. -I'll post more later
So, I was looking at some plastic tubs today in Walmart lol I might want to try to go with one that is specially made for them-and maybe even get a small rack, since I hope to get other snakes someday and it's handy and nice to have around anyways.The vision tubs are sort of pricey, but they seem good quality and still cheaper than an aquarium. When I had to get off late yesterday I said I'd post more later, though I've seen to forgotten all of what I was thinking of then lol Well, I've posted what I think I need to know for now-so it's good Also, wondering about where to get a good scale to weigh my gecko(and maybe snake in the future). Could I get just like a cooking one? Do they have speciality one's for reptiles?
Heh, yep, thats the guy! = ) http://pangeareptile.com has good priced gram scales, and I believe their maximum shipping fee is $10 which makes it quite reasonable. But yeah, you can just use a kitchen gram scale no problem. No need to go too fancy, as long as it does 1g increments and can handle the capacity you desire that is all that is required... given that you are looking into a BP and potentially other snakes that obviously grow much heftier than geckos, you might want to look for someting can measure up to at least a couple thousand grams (there are some that cost <$40 that will handle up to 6-7000g). All of the tubs have their pros and cons... for example, the sterilites actually lose a little floorspace because of the way the sides mold inward, while much of those specially made for herps are fairly straight. There was a nice video on youtube depicting the differences between ~41qt bins for BP's...I believe they compared a Sterilite, Vision, and CB-70 bin, I'll try to find it. The guy shared his experiences with each bin and gave the pros and cons of each. Edit. Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMUhNOEpl-4 Too bad Cleveland is a bit of a drive for me, otherwise I could pick up Cammy and we could all check out the show together = ) haven't but up to Cleveland in a couple years but its incredibly similar to the one in Columbus. Double Edit: You have awarded me my 250th "Like" since the site started the system this summer! = P
Well, cool that I gave you that like! and I like that website with the scales! They have a lot of neat products and reasonably priced! I found some nice scales and a nice, cheap loupe that could help me with sexing my gecko...I about to watch the vid now(loading/buffering takes forever sometimes! >.< ) I wish you guys could come up here too! I'm guessing you live more around Columbus or southern Ohio, so it is pretty far. I hope to be make it over to one of the bigger shows down there sometime too *So, I watched the vid-pretty informative, but the guy in it was saying he doesn't need the lids and all(since he has racks)-do they, the specially made ones such as Vision since I know the steralite do, come with lids? I see that the specially made ones are better than the normal ones in a store, which is expected. Are there small racks you can get with just a few spaces? Also, are there any other kind of snake(such as corn or other more common ones)that could be kept in the tubs like BP's?
Ball pythons prefer smaller enclosures than many snakes. In the wild, they live primarily in rodent burrows and termite mounds--dark, enclosed environments that are more humid than the surrounding area. (The humidity inside a termite mound is over 95%, and kept within a few degrees by the amazing ventilation systems of the termites--it is also between 87 and 89F, which, likely by no accident, is precisely the temperature at which ball python eggs incubate). Ball pythons require a humidity of 60% minimum, and tend to suffer from bad sheds when kept drier. Many owners raise the humidity when the snakes are in shed to prevent this problem, but while that is a good thing to do, keeping them at a lower humidity than 60% likely subjects them to chronic dehydration. They cannot drink enough water to compensate for the fluid loss from the dry environment. (Bad sheds are due to dehydration, as the snake cannot produce enough fluid to separate the old skin from the new). It's very important to prevent wetness in the cage, as they are prone to skin infections in a damp environment, but high humidity is best. (Better too high than too low--termite mounds again are the right model to use--very humid and warm, but never wet). Most glass tanks pose a big challenge when it comes to stable temperatures and adequate humidity--covering most of the mesh top with plastic is one solution, but another is to simply plan for keeping a ball python by using a plastic cage instead of a glass tank with a screen top. You can purchase cages from companies like Animal Plastics. You can also make a simple cage out of a plastic storage bin. Be sure to use clamps to hold down the long sides of the lid, as a ball python is suprisingly strong, and will pry them up and escape or injure itself. A soldering iron can be used to make a small row of ventilation holes. Plastic cages can be easily cleaned and disinfected, are more insulating, and are much easier to maintain. As for size--hatchling ball pythons should not be kept in anything larger than a 10 gallon sized tank, and an 18 quart sterilite 'shoebox' bin is fine for up to a year. From there, a 32 quart sized bin will work for most ball pythons up to age 3 or 4. Large females will need something bigger. A 40 gallon tank or 41 quart sweater box bin is fine for a big adult female. While ball pythons are all individuals, and many will do fine in larger enclosures, a fair number do NOT like open spaces, and will refuse food until they are put into a smaller enclosure. Remember that warm, humid environments breed bacteria and mold. Keep everything clean, and disinfect with a bleach solution on a regular basis.
I have a BP now and I WANT to use a sterilite container for it but right now I can't get the thermostat for an UTH. I have him in a 5.5 gallon tank with aspen, a water dish (pretty big), a hide, and a fake plant. i have a heat bulb on the tank screen (clipped closed). he is only about a foot long, not even the length of the tank. but a sterilite is much lighter and holds in humidity better. but i can't get the thermostat for the UTH. is it possible to use a heat lamp with sterilite until i can get a thermostat? or where can i get a decently cheap (but well-working) thermostat? the one at the pet store where i got my snake was $44. Also, does anyone know a good snake breeder with a website? I'm looking for a female clown morph... a baby though. thanks. Lizardgirl, let us know what you got!
Clowns are beautiful (I'm a sucker for the heavely reduced ones), I just love the patterning and coloration, especially on the head. Always been a big fan but haven't gotten any recessive projects together. I'll keep my eyes peeled for any females floating around... I've seen a few remaining males from 2011 on a couple of sites here and there but no females. I know Rick over at http://www.ballboutique.com/ clowns around from time to time. You could also use a rheostat for the time being as long as you have a quaility tempgun or digital thermometer w/ probe to keep the temperatures on lockdown. You can pick up a lamp dimmer from a Lowes or Home Depot for roughly $10. Just monitor the temps and adjust the dimmer to control wattage until the appropriate temps are met. There really isn't a good way to rig a heat lamp up with a bin, so I'd stick with heat tape or UTH on the dimmer or thermostat. Look forward to seeing pics of the new addition = )
posted them in the pic thread i started i have a couple of dimmers that i was going to use for the UTH for my leopard geckos, but the UTH stopped working, so the dimmers aren't being used. would i need the rheostat AND dimmer for UTH or just the rheostat? for some reason, UTH don't seem to heat the air, just the surface... doesn't that create a problem? clown males for $875??? females must be more expensive than that! *sigh* it could be a while... that have trios of albinos 1.2 for $200 which doesn't seem bad but i only need a female, and i was really looking for a clown morph... unless you happen to have a clown morph Jeff
Heh, I wish I had a clown. I actually prefer them to piebalds; they're probably my favorite recessive mutation. Unfortunately your predicament is precisely why I don't have any yet, starting a project with visuals is costly. You can expect to see females in the $1k+ range. The trio of albinos for $200 are hets, which is reasonable for a trio. A single visual will run about double that (although I've seen males in the $325-350 range). As for the heating questions: The rheostat is the dimmer; it regulates the flow of current - just as one would use a lamp dimmer to dim down a light, you can reduce the flow to the UTH or heat tape so that less heat is produced. To use one, you would monitor the temperatures in the cage immediately on the surface of the bin above the heat tape or UTH... using an accurate digital thermometer with a probe or tempgun, you can adjust the dimmer until the surface temp is perfect for the species. So, for a ball python, lets say without dimming at full power the UTH attains a surface temp of 100 degrees F inside the cage. You would just dim it down a touch until you are more in the comfortable 88-90 range on the surface. Once it is at that temperature, you can just leave it be. The downside to rheostats is, unlike thermostats, you have to manually take action. So as your house temperatures fluctuate seasonally you will have to reduce the flow or increase the flow to make things a little warmer or less warm on the warm end of the enclosure and you'll have to check temperatures more frequently to know to make these adjustments. Thermostats kind of do this for you. As for your predicament with UTH heating the surface and not the air, this is likely attributed to the use of the aquarium - keep in mind that aquariums aren't very efficient at holding heat, so the surface gets nice and toasty but there is no way to keep that warmth from escaping into the external environment. In a plastic bin with lid that is better insulated, you will find that the heat from the surface only has to escape into a small volume of air within the bin, so it is capable of generating heat inside the bin easier rather than escaping up and out of the aquariums screen (almost like you are trying to heat the entire room with a UTH vs. the small volume of air within the bin).
Well I have a few years before he is mature anyways, and I will work on saving up for a female then. I got another BP today, and will post pics into the other thread. Someone on facebook is telling me to stop using tile for my leopard geckos, even though they are provided a sandbox to dig. I just cannot spend the time to watch them eat since I feed at night right before bed. That's a whole other topic though. That would explain why the UTHs I WAS using for my leos wasn't warming up the tank well, so I have to resort to heat lamps, which warm the tile up anyways. It's frustrating having people telling me how to take care of my leos. I could understand if I wasn't keeping them right, but I am. And yes, she may have had leos longer than me, but I still know what I am doing, and my geckos are perfectly happy as they are anyways. La de da...
Lot of misconceptions frequent the herp world, probably because these animals are so tolerant of mistakes and they can be kept a wide variety of ways. One can keep a leo on paper towel and egg crate with a water dish and this leo can grow and thrive at the same rate as a leo kept in an elaborate naturalistc display, and both may still willingly breed and produce healthy, viable clutches. The fact of the matter is, while its nice and very possible to replicate natural environments (sand is NOT natural for leos, btw, if you look at their natural habitat range), we have to understand that these are our pets and they are captives and a few compromises might need to be made. They have weaker immune systems, they rely on us, and taking risks when we have practices that keep our herps happy and healthy is completely irresponsible. Tile a perfectly acceptable substrate...it works... it looks nice...easy to keep sanitary, and 100% safe. Geckos that actually live on sand are those who have adapted to do so, like the Namibian Web Footed gecko. Leopard geckos do NOT live on sand...just watch them walk on it. They cannot move efficiently, they have small feet with claws for burrowing in clay like and rock base, they sink in sand... they like in rocky regions and dry grasslands of Pakistan, Iran, and surrounding areas (just google "Pakistan Terrain" or something similar). Web footed geckos have large surface area feet to glide across the sand quickly and reduce sinking. Your tile is fine. I guarantee that you will never take a gecko to vet on tile; but the risk is always there for anyone housing them on particulate substrate. /End rant. Back to topic on Ball Pythons! = ) Congrats on the new addition!
I'm gonna jump in here, but I'm not nearly as educated as Jeff, but I'll try. From what I've learned BP's only need a 20 long enclosure for a full grown adult, considering that they (as stated above) prefer tight, dark spaces. My plan for my future BP is a 20 gallon long, UTH on the hot side, and a hide on each, with a water bowl in the middle. From what I understand simple is better with these guys. I don't think I'd keep the humidity as high as 95% though, due to the high chance of RI's in ball pythons. Humidity is a tricky topic, because every python is an individual. But everyone that I've talked to has said around 40% when they aren't in shed, and ~65% in shed.
I just noticed you guys started posting in here again and it's cool you got BP's now!!!! I hope to get mine this year, but I don't think I'm going with the tub/container anymore-you said you don't like how the aquariums don't give them enought width, more height(which they don't need as much of), but I saw a nice-on sale-40G that is wide! I hope I can get it! And @badger711-I know a 20G is too small-especially for an adult. You can keep babies/juviniles in them though, but if you could keep them well in a 20G-I would have done it like last year! I wish you could, they're much cheaper and easier to find. I was thinking about getting a corn, mile, or cali snake at 1st, just since they can be kept fine in a 20G-though I like the Bp's more~they just need more room-since they're bigger.
