Hey everyone, well i wanted to know from a good professional with moniters and if it is good to feed your miniter rodents or not, i hear its good i hear its bad, i really want to hear from someone good, so is it??
It depends on who you ask. I am not a professional monitor breeder. But I have kept and bred monitors on what could be considered an amateur level for many years. I do not make my living breeding monitors. Currently I have argus(2), ackies(6) and black roughnecks(2). When I first started I kept the more common ones like savannahs,niles and waters. As you grow in the hobby you discover the animals that really peak your interest. Right now for me its ackies, argus and roughnecks as far as monitors go. I have successfully produced ackies and argus. My roughnecks have bred and layed eggs but so far the eggs havent hatched . Im not sure why still working on that. I may need a new male, I dont know. But thats for another thread. For many years rodents were considered a staple for just about any reptile large enough to eat them. Lately I have read that rodents can be harmful to to some animals. Some claim its the fur. Others the fat content. Personally I dont think its the rodents I think the problems are with bad husbandry and mainly insufficient temperatures and hydration. I cant imagine a full grown argus, nile or other large monitor having a problem digesting a mouse unless it didnt have access to high enough temperatures/hydration to allow normal bodily functions. Monitors are garbage cans. The majority of them will eat just about anything including carrion. Ive read some articles that say the diet of wild savannahs is almost 100% insects. What? You're telling me a wild savannah who comes across a nice rodent or bird wont eat it? No way. I consider Frank Retes of Goanna Ranch to be one of the leaders in monitor husbandry and breeding. I follow his lead. Keep it simple. Heat'em and feed'em. Offer them a range of choices and let them choose. He mainly feeds rodents and insects. He's bred 22 species of monitors. I cant imagine he would be that successful if his food choices were wrong. To me a lot of this is just common sense. I have always fed my monitors rodents and have never had a problem. Everyone I know who keeps monitors, and I know a LOT of reptile people over my 25 years in the hobby, feed their monitors rodents. For the larger animals I feed rodents almost exclusively. You know how many insects it would take to fill up a full grown argus monitor? Neither do I and I really have no interest in finding out. How about a full grown croc monitor? Or water monitor? Can you imagine maintaining an animal that size on insects and maybe some snails? So I cant answer the question with 100% certainty. If you ask different people you will get different answers. Just like asking whats the best substrate or whats the best type of lighting? I can only speak from my own experience and I have always fed rodents when appropriate. Just as a side note I dont mess around with pinkies. A pinkie is not much bigger than a cricket so until the animals are large enough to eat a mouse that is at least fuzzy size I just stick to bugs. Crickets, super worms and soon roaches.
Ok, i hear what you are saying, so i guess its good for them to feed them rodents because i was wondering that too, it would take ALLOOT of crickets to fill up a moniter and what else would you feed em eh, so i will have an appropiate sized rodent for my moniter. Hey how often do you feed your moniter?? Well one day i am hoping to get green tree monitor, expensive: hell yea, hard to take care of: hell yea, i would really like of these guys after doing alot of reseach, i am up to it, any comments on this JBCT??
The feeding schedule should vary depending on the age of the monitor. Hatchlings should be fed every day. I feed hatchlings until they are full and dont show an interest in food any more. They are growing rapidly at this stage and need their nourishment. As they grow the feeding can be reduced to every other day and then 2-3 times a week for adults. You can theoretically feed an adult less often but I prefer smaller and more frequent feedings rather than one large meal a week as I feel the monitors do better on this type of schedule. I wouldnt worry about overfeeding hatchlings and juvies. Some care should be taken when feeding adults as most monitors will overeat and become obese if given the chance. I feed them a lot and they are plump and robust but not obese. Green tree monitors are spectacular lizards. Yes, they are known to be more difficult to keep then the average monitor. You're on the right track by doing your research before aquiring the animal. Before getting a green tree I think a person should have at least some experience with monitors and lizards in general. The green trees are not impossible to keep but they are less tolerant of keeper mistakes than say a savannah. They seem to be more shy than most monitors and probably stress easily. Much different than say a water monitor which will charge out of its hiding spot looking for food at the first sign of its keeper. They can be expensive and arent readily available. I would have the cage set up well advance so you can check the temps, humidity and get everything just right before the animal arrives. Some reasearch suggests they may benefit from a drip system similar to the ones often provided for chameleons. Plenty of cover is a must. Captive born specimens are rare and not often available to the general public. Most of the animals you see offered for sale will be wild caught adults which can be difficult to acclimate to captivity. If this is the animal you want I would just be very cautious who you bought from. I would feel more comfortable with an animal that has been in captivity for a while rather than a fresh import. Not trying to dissuade you just letting you know these guys arent easy. But well worth the effort for those willing and able to work with them.
I'm not JBCT, but seeing your current list of reptiles I would strongly advise against getting a green tree monitor. For starters, aside from being a less forgiving species to keep than most other commonly available monitors, you're highly unlikely to breed them. Consequently, you'll be contributing to the removal of one (or two) from the wild, without contributing to the captive population by breeding them. I'd suggest you get a captive bred species, such as V acanthurus, and cut your teeth on those.
I would have to agree. If a new or intermediate hobbyist were to ask me what monitor they should get, an ackie or a green tree, I would say ackie without a shadow of a doubt. Or if you wanted something arboreal the black roughnecks are easier to keep, less expensive and captive bred animals are available semi-regularly. However when someone really wants an animal nothing said on a message board is going to stop them. So in that case, if you're going to get the animal anyway, do your research, set up your cage and buy wisely.
Ok thanks for the comments, i know what you guys are saying, well im gunna work at a little indoor zoo and i will be working with reptiles like moniters too so i want to get some more expirence with moniters phisically and then i will do alloot of research, i will try to find a captie bred baby Green tree moniter or even a blue, i think im up to this challenge you guys. Oh and 2 questions, whats the diffrence from a blue and green and why do their tails curl up like a chamelons tail??
Blues are a different species. The blues are Varanus macraei and the greens are Varanus prasinus. From the little I have read about the blues they seem quite similar to greens. From what I understand these are even less common then the greens. They have a a long, prehensile tail which can be used like a fifth limb. It aids them in clmbing and grasping branches. Just like a chameleon.
Ok so your saying the blue is more rare and would probally be more expensive right, oh and thats awesome how their tails are like that, they are my next lizard after this expo, i am going to get tond of care sheets, you guys know any good ones??
Its hard to say which is more rare. I have seen more greens offered for sale than blues. That could mean there is simply more of an interest in greens than blues. Or, it could mean the blues are harder to come by, really cant say. I checked Kingsnake.com classifieds just for kicks and did see a pair of blues offered but didnt see any greens. I know Pro Exotics, a company I have a great deal of respect for, has a colony of greens that they are working with but so far no hatchlings. I did see some greens offered for sale on other sites. They are around, you just have to look. The care sheets on greens are limited. If you do a search on google for green tree monitor or emerald tree monitor you will find some info. So far I havent seen an extensive one like the kinds you see for leopard geckos and bearded dragons. But by reading a few you can get a good base of knowledge to start with. Perhaps someone else can lead you to a real good one. If you do decide to jump in with the tree monitors I wish you luck. If you get one and have success by all means consider getting it a mate if you have the space and can afford it. Who knows, you may be one of the lucky few who gets viable eggs.
Yea thanks alot JBCT i am going to try to get alot of info on these guys from anywhere, i wish t get a green or blue doesnt matter but i will reseahc allot on these guys no matter what, it will sure be a tough challenge but i think i will manage, i am going to stck with one baby blue or breen and after i get alot of good expirence with it then i wish to get it a mate and yea hopefully i will get some eggs, it would be really cool to get some babies from them and sell some of them and keep a few for myself, ya know im someone who really like aboreal types of reptiles, i am already getting a green tree python, i have 2 chameleons, im going to get a jungle carpet python and soon a green tree monitor, it will sure cost alot of money but its worth it, im 13 years old and i thin im doing great so far, i really wanna start breeding reptiles and so far im having luck with my chameleons and i have alot of eggs. Im gunna have to get a job and start working in my room when eggs come. I will be selling my leopard geckos and beardies for some moeny for the expo that is coming up.
You sound like me when I was 13. I'll give a you a little advice from someone who's being doing this a lot longer than you've been alive. And Im not going to tell you not to get a lot of reptiles. Far from it. Reptiles have been a source of joy and pride for me for many years. I have made wonderful friends and went to new and exciting places thanks to this hobby. If you want to have a roomful of reptiles and your parents are OK with this I will not discourage you. I will only say this. Go slow. Think carefully about what you want to keep. I can see that green tree monitors and arboreal snakes have your interest. Thats fine. Go with that. Aquire animals that fascinate you. Dont give in to a whim. Dont just pick up a random lizard or snake and then lose interest. Plan ahead. Plan on having this animals for a long, long time. Think about the care and space they will require as adults. Consider getting pairs since breeding is about the most fun you can have. Imagine seeing a green tree python neonate pip the egg. Or even a green tree monitor. I hatched my first kingsnake when I was 16. And I just about lost my mind. I kept it and had it for 9 years before I finally lost it to unknown causes. Now you mention you're selling your leopards and beardies. That is fine if you wish to aquire other animals. But when you make your next purchase think long term. Because Ill tell you its exciting to have an animal for many years. Ive had a blue tongue skink for 16 years. Hes lived with me in three apartments and two houses. I think thats pretty cool. Jungle carpets are a favorite of mine. I no longer keep snakes. At one time I had around 100 but that was many years ago. However, if I were to keep snakes again the jungle carpets would be high on my list. I love them. Your chameleons layed eggs. Thats great. Did they breed or was she gravid when you got her? Any luck hatching the eggs? Take your time. You have a whole lifetime ahead of you to enjoy the hobby. There is no rush. Thats all Im saying. You sound like a good kid. Have fun.
Reptile_Mann, I know that you are desperately keen to get a tree monitor, but I'd like you to consider something that rarely gets mentioned on these forums for some reason (and certainly isn't getting a mention in this thread, either). Buying a wild caught tree monitor is not a good way to learn how to keep monitors. This isn't about you or whether or not you're up to the challenge or about whether or not you're going to lose the hard earned allowance money that you use to buy the lizard. This is a conservation issue and has to do with the wild populations of those reptiles. Most of the tree monitors have very limited distributions in the wild. This means they are not widespread. Their wild populations are not very well known and most of the species are barely known to science before they become widespread in the pet trade (in fact, with some species it is the other way around, they become widespread in the pet trade before they are even named by science). No one knows if they have large healthy populations or if they are rare and disappearing. The government of the country from which they come isn't overly concerned about lowly reptiles and, for the most part, a few corrupt officials are paid off to get the reptiles out of the country, anyway. The methods used to catch wild monitors are rough, so not all of them survive capture. In many cases, valuable habitat is destroyed in the process. Then the reptiles are shipped to the other side of the world under harsh conditions, so not all of them survive shipping. A few are dehydrated when they arrive and die shortly afterwards, so by the time you buy one, a handful have been removed from the wild, never to return again. Then that one that you buy dies a Darwinian death, which means that no matter how long it lives, it will never contribute to the gene pool again. Even if you bought two, your chances of successfully breeding them are extremely slim, as you've had no experience incubating the eggs of other monitors. Despite what JBCT said, getting eggs from tree monitors isn't rare, hatching them is. A friend of mine who has been keeping tree monitors for years and who has received many eggs has yet to hatch one successfully. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but if you have any concern over wild reptiles, how about getting a nice captive bred species of monitor and keeping that for a while. Then, when you can get a mate for it, try breeding those. That way, nothing gets removed from the wild while you are learning. If you are very successful at breeding monitors, you can then think about trying some of the more difficult WC species, with the idea in mind that by breeding them you may be helping to reduce the need for more wild caught monitors. In other words, become part of the solution rather than the problem. At the moment, if you buy a single wild caught one, you are adding to the problem, not the solution.
Just to clarify I never said that getting eggs from tree monitors is rare. I said that captive born specimens are rarely available and Pro Exotics has a colony but so far no hatchlings. Yes, they have gotten plenty of eggs but none have hatched successfully. I also mentioned getting viable eggs. Meaning eggs that hatch. Perhaps that was misleading since an egg could be viable but fail to hatch if the incubation is off. I wont get into the conservation debabte. Its way too deep. There is more to it than just whether or not you should buy a wild caught animal. I am wholeheartedly in favor of buying captive bred animals and a huge fan of captive breeding in general. I breed all my lizards with the exception of one green iguana which is just a "pet". Although I doubt the gene pool misses him much with hundreds of thousands of iguanas flooding the country yearly and slowly taking over Florida. I actually think I would be doing more harm than good by breeding him and producing another few hundred baby iguanas, the majority of which will not be cared for properly. But thats another story. Just to make it clear I never suggested he get a green tree monitor. And I agree there are better, more readily available, easier, less expensive species that will be more likely to reproduce. But I am a realist and understand that nothing said a message board will stop someone from doing what they want to do. Period. So, in that case, if you're going to do it anyway be smart. Thats all Im saying. If a novice keeper asked me if they should get a nile monitor I would say "No, dont get it. But if you insist, do it right." Your points are valid crocdoc. Conservation is a very important issue.
Thanks. He still hates me too 16 years later. Hes been trying to figure out a way to do me in. I found bomb plans in his hide box. Plus I think hes conspiring with my male argus monitor. Im not doing anything special. Heat'em and feed'em is my motto. I give him choices and let him pick what he wants. He has a wide range of temperatures to choose from. Hes got plenty of hiding places both hot and cool. And he eats everything under the sun. I think one of the problems people have with blue tongues is humidity. I give my skinks humidity hides similar to the ones people use for leopard geckos and they love them. They shed beautifully. I also bathe them regularly. Skinks in the tub, watch your toes! And perhaps most importantly I leave him alone. Im not constantly annoying him by picking him up and toting him around like a handbag.
the longest lived bluetongues I've heard of yet belonged to a friend who had a female that gave birth when he was twelve. He kept two from that litter and they died a few years ago at 36 years of age.
You mean Im stuck with this thing for another 16-20 years? Dear Lord! Anybody want to buy a slightly used skink?? Kidding...kidding. Thats incredible. 36 years old. Wow.
My other post disappeared, so I'll try again. Thanks, that was exactly my point. People do get very viable eggs from their tree monitors, but still have difficulties hatching them, so getting eggs is the easy part. Yes, of course there's a lot more to it, but we happened to be talking about buying wild caught animals so this is the part of conservation that is relevant here. I get what you're saying, but I think the message can be much stronger. Aside from myself, I don't think I've ever seen anyone go through the trouble of explaining why a newbie shouldn't get a one-off, wild caught animal. Particularly something like a blue tree monitor (compared to, say, a Nile monitor). The answer usually has to do with the keeper, not the wild population. For example 'they are tricky to keep', which makes the newbie think it's a challenge to his/her keeping ability (and therefore even more likely to want one) rather than 'you may be contributing to the damage of the wild population'.
Well remeber, i want to start a breeding buisness too, but i gotta keep it easy and smooth, maybe i should start with an ackies then go to a GTM, that would be great too. Oh and i bought a male and female chameleon, had them together, they breeded and now seperated for life, i have 39 eggs incubating and their all doing great, i will be getting another clutch in a few more days from her. It will be tough keeping a WC adult GTM but i think i can sucseed if i try my best to satisfy it. I will be really excited and happy to see a head pop out of my eggs. A few more months and they should hatch, they all look nice and white from the looks of it, only one has died.
