ok.....hi i'm new here......i just bought a baby water dragon which i hope was a good idea...i live in alaska so..kind of a wierd climate for the little guy but i'm keepin his basking side at eh,,, around 95, and the cooler water end at about 75....so far i've just been following the petco care sheet(is that a bad idea???), however, i am getting a book called "Green Water Dragons, Sailfin Lizards and Basilisks (General Care and Maintenance of Series) by Philippe De Vosjoli" in the mail, i hope it helps... he's about 6 inches(estimate, not exact) long from head to tail, and his tank is 30 inches long so it should last me a little while right??? i'm feeding him mealworms and radish leaves so far....he only eats the mealworms...tell me...How many mealworms should the average baby dragon eat??? Don't say "depends" please...these ones aren't the mini ones...they're the next size up, and he eats about two and a half per day....and he hasn't eaten out of the bowl yet..i have to place the worms in front of him with my bamboo tweezers...What's a good way to get him to eat out of the bowl??? he hasn't swimed in his water much...he only runs over it when it's in his way of getting to the tree which he sleeps in every night.....Is that normal??? Tell me what are some good things to feed your BABY dragon(do not overwhelm me with numorous examples of food...i only want a few examples of the best types(very few)) the people at petco said mealworms and greens should last him for a while...i have a tupperware thing of mealworms...What's the best way to gutload them??? Ok...now for the big one...He has a problem...it looks like the skin around one eye is slightly gewy, and he has a little trouble opening it due to a small amount of crust in the morning....his second clear lid looks slightly red tinted but the eye ball is clear itself. He sprapes his eye against the ground, bark, and his foot ervery once in a while..it looks painful and i cringe every time i see it..the people at petco said that it could be from stress(i handled him alot for the first day....i know..bad me, bad me), and from the the cold at night(for the first two days i had a bad heater...we're talkin 65 to 80 at that point)....i think it could be a peice of somthing that got in his eye...i keep his tank very worm and moist and offer him worms until he refuses, and i have the uvb light on him for a good 17 hours a day so that's not a problem.....i told petco yesterday that i'd bring him in if he got worse...it's not worst...but i'm still worried....i named him Byron (hopeing he's a boy) and i dont want to halfto give him back to petco to deal with...please reasure me that he'll be ok ......i geuss that's all ................TwiceBorn did i mention he HATES being handled....i havn't touched him for the last day though......oh...and how do you get an avator on your post thing....sorry, i'm new to forums....
Wow--he is just a baby! They are so fragile at this age....First of all he should not be eating mealworms...bad pet store advice. He needs to be eating crickets (no bigger han the space between his eyes) As many as he'll eat in a 15 minute period. Since he is so new to your home, he may not eat for a couple of days (relocation stress). He may also like phoenix worms (small-medium) or silkworms. There is a good chance he won't ever like greens--mine still hates his at 10 mos old! As far as how many exactly, my wd at 3 months old (much older than yours I'm guessing by the size) would eat about 10 small crix and 5-10 phoenix worms in one sitting (I offered him food 2x a day). Somedays he would eat--somedays he wouldn't. They can be very picky and very stubborn (well, at least mine can be I buy my worms from mulberry farms online. Gutloading crix is easy--just feed them greens, carrots, bits of fruit, etc...or even the premade "Cricket gutload" they sell. Throw in a piece of potato/apple into where they are being kept for moisture. Dust your crix every day with calcium/vitamins. Phoenix worms are care-free as they are chock full of calcium and come packaged in little cups full of their bedding/food. They keep for weeks out of the fridge and are really good for WDs! Silkworms are an option too. Don't worry about the veggies yet! Please tell us what kind of UVB light you have, how far it is from your dragon--if you bought your dragon from petco, I'm guessing it's and ESU coil light--they are not good at all. Has he pooped at all? What kind of substrate do you have hime on? If it's sand or bark or wood chips get him off now and switch to paper towels until you can get him on repti-carpet, non-adhesive shelf liner or tiles....Sand or any loose substrate is SO bad for your wee little one! If he is suffering from relocation stress he may not go 'swimming/soaking" yet...mist his tank 3 or 4 times a day with a sprayer to keep humidity up. Alaska is like Montana (where I am) and humidity is hard to control--but very important to the little WDs I don't know about the eye....when I brought fuzzy home he was very sick and in bad shape-he didn't open his eyes for a week and he wouldn't eat for 2+. I had to syringe feed for awhile, then hand feed, then disable his crix so they wouldn't run away from him while he learned to hunt...all in all it took me 2 or so months to get him on track. Your Byron sounds VERY VERY young...he will be okay if you are willing to take the time and spend the money--they are a handful, but very rewarding!
thanks...wow....didn't know there was so much i was doing wrong.... first of all.......i was wrong on the size so forgive me and tell me if he still needs paper towls and crix please......he's actually around 8 inches....mabye a few centameters more...hard ta get an exact mesurement on the guy....i don't want to stress him to death.....so you might want to confirm some of the things you said or leave them out.... it's strange how petco can be soo wrong in some areas.... heres what they said...have mealworms in the tank at every point of the day(is that not the right way??)...and give him greens daily.... they said pepper the mealworms with calcium every other day(should it be every day...they said you could overdoes)...and not to worry about the vitamines because i have a uvb....here's what kind it is btw "slimline reptile fixture with desert lamp 7%uvb...it also says esu on it but i don't think it's coil....it's just a round cylinder bulb.....on the top it says...Note: Remove the lens for uva & uvb output. If not removed, yellowing of the lens due to uv exposeir may occur......i havn't removed it yet because it didn't look like it was suposed to be...it has long sturdy screws holding it in and is clear enough...i was afraid the light itself might be damaged do to all the spraying....it's about9 inches from the bottum of his cage and 2 inches from the highest climbing point... substrate is bark...big chunks....the same kind they were useing at petco he poops about two or three times a day....but it looks funny....it's white liquid with black lugees plopped down with it.... i mist his tank often.... every one else...feel free to give your advise...i need it....just realize he's 8 inches not 6....... TwiceBorn
He's still very young...Petco is notorious about selling dragons way too young. So yes--he will ALWAYS eat crix...even when he is an old timer. Get the ones that are no bigger than he space between his eyes...if they are jumping around too much for Byron to catch them put a few dusted ones in the fridge to chill for a couple of minutes-it slows them down. To dust crix just shake them and a pinch of calcium powder in a ziplock baggie--and voila! Breaded crickets! Get that bark stuff out of there--not only can he still ingest some of it (even with big chunks) he'll never find his crickets (they like to hide). Paper towels will be fine until you get some repti-carpet (or shelf liner--the non-adhesive kind-5$ at wal-mart . Mealworms are very dangerous to young dragons and can cause severe impaction (constipation). I don't know why petco insists that they are what should be used. Now...your light...I'm afraid that's not gonna do it for him. What I have for mine is a Megaray 100w flood (just google that--I'm not sure if I can point you to online sources)12" over his basking spot, and than a reptisun 8.0 for on the cooler side of his tank. They need gobs of UVB--and your esu isn't going to do it--removing the lens thingy should help for now until you can get the proper lighting. Here is an awesome website http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/dragoncr.htm it is the holy grail of Water Dragon care I still consider myself a newbie so I'm hoping a moderator comes along soon to help you!
ok...my tank is only 10 inches high and 30 inches long.....so not big enough for two two uvb lights....btw i already have a big heater above his basking spot so there's no room for anything else, but i guess i'll try to find the main uvb light you talked about.......and how big does he half to be before i put him on bark......his tanks gonna look bad with the flat carpet stuff... he's definitly not constapated...but i'll get him crix....and do you think they would have an exceptable gutload mix at petco???or evan the lights you were talking about????? i really don't want to look forever online and wait for shipping... i've seen the site before....so much info overwelms me.....i wish they could fust have one page on talking care of babies....and so many types of food!!....one type of bug will work for me....so i guess it's crix then.....so...it would be a bad idea to give him back to petco an see if they could help his eye??? oh...and there's alot of stuff to take in here....i'll be makeing alot of changes...not that i don't trust you,, but could people who have healthy dragons second him........it'd make me feel more secure... TwiceBorn
I have no idea if the petco care sheet is any good or not because I've never seen it. I have kept/bred/raised/hatched water dragons for over 15 years now...so if you have questions just ask and I will do my best to answer. The basking temperature sounds fine assuming he can get to the area where the basking light is. The 30" tank should last him for a while. You only need the lights on 12 to 14 hours a day. No lights at night. I have never fed mine radish leaves....don't know if they are safe or not. I've never fed them mealworms either. I feed mine greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, etc.) and veggies (sweet red peppers, squash, sweet potato, carrots, zucchini, etc.) and some fruit (apples, pears, melon, berries) and appropriate sized crickets. Once in a while I give them a waxworm but they are fattening so they should only be a treat. You can feed them daily as many crickets as they will eat in a minute or two and leave a couple of crickets free in the cage for later and some greens, veggies and fruit until they are at least several months old. Then you can cut back to feeding them every second day with the insects and alternate days with the greens, etc. I know you know that you should gutload the insects but do you know about supplementing/dusting them? Its important to do both. I gutload my crickets and mealworms with a variety of greens and veggies. You asked..."What's a good way to get him to eat out of the bowl???"...I don't use a bowl...I use a flat lid (like the ones on a peanut can or cocoa can). You said..."he hasn't swimed in his water much...he only runs over it when it's in his way of getting to the tree which he sleeps in every night.....Is that normal???"...that's normal for little ones. He'll swim more as he grows. Now for the eye...you can try gently misting the eye with barely warm water....but if it doesn't clear up quickly it might need some medication so you might need to see a vet. Cute name BTW! Wish I could reassure you about the eye, but I don't know what will happen with it. You said..."he HATES being handled"...some are quicker to accept it than others...give him time!
hey..thanks i found your post quiet helpful....good news....his eyes look better....i have been misting them so that might of helped....i have been dusting them every other day with calcium....is that enough??? i'm not sure if the lid has worked yet....one worm went missing so he might of eaten it....but it could have just crawled under the bark.....or that barks no good for babies??? just want a second view..... btw....the care sheet for petco can be found at http://www.petco.com/caresheets/lizards/Dr...hineseWater.pdf .....do you have any idea if the book i mentioned is good??? do you agree with seque that my lights not good enough??? thanks again.....i'll get some crix soon.... TwiceBorn
You said..."i already have a big heater above his basking spot so there's no room for anything else"...what do you mean heater? My cages have a regular incandescent light in a metal hood and a repti-sun 5.0 UVB light on them. The size of the incandescent is dictated by the temperature it produces in the basking area and the temperature of the cage. You asked..."how big does he half to be before i put him on bark......his tanks gonna look bad with the flat carpet stuff."....I'm more interested in the health of the dragon than I am in what the cage looks like. I don't use any substrate or carpet at all for the first few months...then I use cypress mulch. Some barks have oils in them that are toxic to water dragons. You said..."his eyes look better....i have been misting them so that might of helped"...glad to hear that the eyes look better. Just watch and if they don't get 100% better, then he may need meds. You said..."I have been dusting them every other day with calcium....is that enough???"...I dust almost every day with a phosphorous-free calcium. Insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. so this helps to make up for it. I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder (that the vitamin A source of is beta carotene). Preformed sources can build up in the system but beta carotene can't. I dust twice a month with a calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can build up in the system, but from sunlight or direct UVB (not through glass or plastic) it won't. Vitamin A, vitamin D3, calcium and phos. are the main players in bone health and they need to be in balance. Appropriate temperatures are important too because the heat allows for proper digestion. jI don't know if the book is good or not....I've never read it. I have kept dragons for over 15 years....so most of my experience comes from that.
The advice you are getting is sound. I don't have as much experience as kinyonga but everything sounds good. It really would be a good idea to get rid of the bark. I know it isn't as pleasing to the eye but is safer for you WD and that's what's important. As far as the UV light you have, first, remove the plastic cover over the bulb. The cover will block the UV radiation that the bulb produces making it useless. I am not sure how good the ESU flourescents are, I would buy an appropriate sized Repti-Sun 5.0 UV bulb and use it in the fixture you have. The Repti-Sun is a good bulb but remember Byron will need to get as close as 6" to that bulb to enjoy any benefit. Handling will get easier with time and patience. Be persistent, don't give in when Byron throws a fit as that will encourage him to do it so you'll let him go. He may even come to enjoy it after a while, try hand feeding when you hold him. He may begin to associate your sessions with a "treat" and be eager to get out. For some very good information check out this site, http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/ She really knows her stuff. The book that you are talking about is good although I believe it is quite a few years old. It will get you going in the right direction though.
SpindleHead... Glad you mentioned removing the plastic cover! I usually mention that the UVB light shouldn't pass through glass or plastic...but I forgot this time! Water dragons are very interesting creatures and I've enjoyed them a lot over the years!
ESU Reptile Slimline barely moves a UVB meter, get a Repti-Sun 5.0 or 10.0 or Repti-Glo 8.0, those are really the only good tube UVB's on the market. Also, with regards to feeding only ONE food item - not trying to sound harsh, but that's not fair to your dragon. They need a wide variety to stay happy & healthy. I offer mine a variety of roaches, crickets, supers, silkies, phoenix worms & butter worms plus pinkies (well, fuzzies now, Oscars getting too bit for pinkies) in addition to a salad that they ignore. Feeding only crickets would be like you eating grilled chicken, very day, for the rest of your life - evetually, you'd be sick of it! Definately check out Tricia's site, it's a godsend & has saved many a young dragons life. Dont hesitate to ask questions here, as you can see, most everyone is helpful & really knows what they are doing. Also, you'll want a GOOD herp vet - try www.herpvetconnection.com or www.arav.com for referrals in yoru area. HTH, ~Michelle
Actually, I've been using a Slimline 7.0 18" for the entire time I've owned my dragon with no problems. Otherwise, everthing mentioned is great advice.
CWDdude, do you have a meter? Because (I'm going by what CheriS measured & posted regarding UVB output of different bulbs, as I do not have one) unless you do, I would be extremely wary about using that bulb. Here's the posting she put up in Pogona a while ago that I kept: CheriS wrote: Here is kind of the break down on UVB readings that a light at 12 inches from them would be delivering to them after 1 week use ESU coil......................02 ESU Slimline................03 ReptiGlo 5.0.................12 ReptiGlo 8.0.................21 ReptiSun 5.0................22 Arcadia........................25 (this is a bulb mostly in Europe) ReptiSun 10.0..............32 Power Sub 100 Watt ....38 Active UVheat..............120 MegaRay.....................160 Natural Sunlight ...........200-450 (ranges from 9am to 4pm which is their basking times (except for high noon) ~Michelle
No, I do not have a meter. Honestly, I don't really care what readings anyone has taken. I don't keep my bulb 12" away from where my dragon spends most of his time. At 12", most of the UVB has dissipated anyway. My light is about 6" above his branches where he spends most of his day. That is why at this moment, I am not hugely concerned about what bulb, well, other than percentage output, that I am using. This fixture is getting ditched in the next month or so for a MVB when I finish his new viv. I don't mean to come off sounding like a jerk, however, people like to try and correct me on anything I post that isn't following everyone else. I've been taking care of reptiles for about three years, and a water dragon for a little over a year and a half. I just get tired of it because I'm not 12, have experience, major in zoology, and do tons of research.
I'm not trying to be rude either, just going by what I know & what I use personally. Everyone has their own system & if it works for you & your dragon, hey, keep at it (although to be honest, I'm glad your getting the MVB, you'll see a dramitc increase in appetite & color, I use the T-Rex Active UV Heat 160 Watt Spot for my WD's & love it). Noone here (to my knowledge anyway) tries to purposely lambast anyone unless they're OBVIOUSLY doing something wrong (like keep a WD in a bearded dragon set-up lol) ... we're here to share & learn & use other peoples experiance to better out animals lives, since they better ours. Sorry if I came off a little harsh, no offense intended! ~Michelle
I agree with Shortygirl, we all want what's best for our animals and sometimes opinions vary greatly so the occasional disagreement is inevitable. There are dozens of conflicting reports on the effectivness of the coil type UV lights and without concrete proof I simply choose to avoid them in favor of lamps that I have seen testing results on. If the coil lamps work for you then more power to you, I am sure that you are doing your very best for your pets and I have no issue with you whatsoever. Perhaps at some point you will be able to check them with a UV meter and then you will have results that you can use to back up your position. Good luck everyone, keep up the good work. See ya, Chris
I agree. I really didn't mean to come off as a jerk. No one on this thread was harsh, it's just that as I said, I've used the slimline with success over a year and a half. Does this mean it's a great light? LOL. no. I only bought it cause I was poor and it was the only light I could find locally for under $100(Herp stuff in green bay is super expensive). MVB's are awesome. I've read so much great stuff about them, but I can't use one. I've got a 40 breeder and I fear it will heat the tank too much.
ok.....great advise all.......firstly for cwddude i wuold just like to say that i see his point...i think this comunity has wonderful info and thank everyone for all they've given...that said....i'm not planing on spending every sent i have when i can get something that will work good enough for cheap......i'm not going to spend the very minimum and make my dragon live in poor conditions.......but....i'm not going to splurdge(SP???) on him insanely......i'll give him other food every once in a while but him mane diet will be crix(onless he refuses......and i will keep my slimline until i get a new tank....which should be soon........ i don't want to sound like i'm throwing some advise out the window, but i see people that spend thousands of dollars on their dragons.....little Byron will halfta be satisfied with what i give him......which will be enough.... and i think some people look down on that type of thinking.......and that's what cwddude was slightly upset about...(scrap that if i'm wrong cwddude) .....i'll have more later...gotta go....
TwiceBorn, if you have the Slimline closer than 12", it should work fine. If it's further, than I cannot say if it will work as well for you as it has for me. I would put it were your dragon spends most of his/her time.
