im new here and im looking to fire up a discussion on a controversial issue that ive heard good points on both pros and cons in regards to hybrid cross breeds. I seek good opinions and respect anything said. I personally think hybrids are very interesting in regards to unique appearances resulting from cross breeding different pythons together. As well as the potential for creating stronger, bigger, disease resistant , more tolerant specimens. Successful hybrids that i have seen are ball/berms , ball/angolan (angryball) , ball/carpet , ball blood (super ball) ball/retic , retic/berm (bateater) and more that i cant think of at the moment. Now,...what are your thoughts? this is a ball/blood this is a ball/angolan this is a burm/ball this is a carpet/ball
Although I really am not involved with snakes too much I have been involved in numerous conversations on this forum and others over gecko cross-breeding and hybrids. Although I am on the fence of both a purist but also see the benefits that could come about to a species.... I'm a fan of "if it wouldn't or hasn't happened in nature, we probably shouldn't F with it" AKA don't play god.... BUT for certain species that are going extinct or in dire need of the strengths of another similar animal elsewhere in the world that it would have never have met up with in the wild, then maybe.... to save the species that needs the help. But just for fun? Eh, I don't really like the idea. The only way I think it would be acceptable is if it's done responsibly.... ie. knowing the genetics, documenting behaviors and habits of the parents and pick the specimens you don't think will harm each other and have nearly exact care requirements, and then documenting the hatchlings thoroughly... then I could see the positives could out-weigh the negatives. Unless you have someone crossbreeding and making hybrids and then selling them as pure bred... Its that kind of business practices that have always put hybrids on the "BAD" list.
i agree entirely about wrongly selling hybrids as a "new color morph" thats just wrong. now i dont have a problem if they are identified and labeled properly when sold. down in florida they have the populations of burmese and reticulated pythons, and they are starting to find that that they are starting to cross breed and the concern is that they will be more aggressive, possible larger, and could be more tolerant to climate variations so they can survive further north in cooler areas.
i dont know enough about ball python hybrids and how the genetics affect the ehalth of the animal to have a well formed opinio. though unlike sticky paws i tend to have that why not attitude so long as the animals produced are healthy
That's exactly what I'm afraid of... Sadly, that is fully human doing and unfortunately as such is going to start wiping out native species to the area.... The burmese and retic populations in the everglades is entirely our fault and is becoming a huge problem.... Now lets say that hypothetically retic's were on the endangered species list and there were only 100 left in the world and scientists and zoologists etc. all want to start a breeding project and re-introduce them into their natural habitat... they might consider crossbreeding to burmese to make them a stronger species and up the amount of hatchlings that could be produced in a short amount of time. Then it would be a good thing! But what's happening in Florida.... definitely not a good thing
our fault? yes and no. the problem in the everglades is due chiefly to a hurricane back in the late 90's ,early 2000's i believe. what happened was is there was a storage warehouse where imported reptiles and other animals were being kept. mostly burmese pythons. when the hurricane struck it destroyed the warehouse,killing most of everything inside but several pythons survived and because the environment is so similar to their natural region with humidity and temperature they survived and began reproducing. by 2006 it was determined that large colonies have developed and was at the point were nothing could be dont to correct it. researchers have been tracking, and studying them and find they feed on gators, birds, mammals and pretty much anything they can get a hold of but they do fall prey to large gators, eagles , and other animals that can take down smaller pythons. now your right with it being partially "mans" fault because several do get released when someone cant keep em and it doesnt help the situation at all, and its believed that thats how the retics entered the scene and again did well for themselves to make large colonies and now they are co-mingling with each other. i dont like how the state runs "hunting" programs to thin out the numbers tho i understand what they want to accomplish, i flat out do not condone the killing of animals, especially snakes. if anything they should collect them for zoo's or try to take them to what was originally their natural habitat. At this point , whats done is done, and we should make the best of a bad situation and leave it be. nature has a way of balancing things out. animals will adapt to survive and we should use this as a serious lesson.
Personally id kinda enjoy living in a place where i can take a stroll into my back yard and see some badass snakes hanging out basking in the sun. Seeing the same ones all the time and having them get used to me handling them.
here are a few sites that you may find interesting http://www.nps.gov/ever/naturescience/burmesepython.htm http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/04/20/090420fa_fact_bilger http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/epis...st-shawn-heflick-answers-your-questions/5564/
I can't remember for the life of me the warehouse that actually was the breeding project for a reptile zoo down in florida (1st of it's kind in the 70's) but I remember reading the entire history because the original owner recently passed, it was a very interesting read. You're absolutely correct, that is what bumped the huge burmese population down there, but they had already begun to find some in the wild before then - and those were from people releasing them into the wild when they got too large to handle. Same thing with the retics. The links are pretty neat - the 1st notes the exponential growth of the population over the past 10 years.... which is not good for the native species in the area. OR rather it reflects the effort being put forth now that it's gotten a bit out of control verses when they should have done something in the beginning when it would have been a couple hundred instead of thousands Hm, the 3rd link the expert being questions notes that retic's aren't in south florida.... I had heard they were...? That article was a serious read and a TON of questions answered very well... that guy had a lot of patience and knowledge with the wide range of questions being tossed out there!
there deffinatly is retics down there, not as many as burms but still an alarming amount. as to why he didnt address that in depth, im not sure.
My opinions on hybrids were outlined here: http://www.reptileboards.com/threads/hybrid-reptiles.64651/ The blood/short-tail X BP crosses are absolutely gorgeous to me though. My concern is differentiating some offspring that don't look so dramatically different (assuming there is some deviation in the phenotype). If a hybrid that resembled one species more heavely than the other and it got into the wrong hands, you run into possible destruction of pure bloodlines.
I'm not a fan of hybrids, but so long as endangered species and native species aren't involved, I don't see much issue with it. They are, and always will be, pets--so creating new types of pets is fine by me. As for the Retics and Burms down in the Everglades...the idea that these animals will crossbreed to produce large 'super-snakes' is hilarity produced by the media, and nothing more. You see, these hybrids have already been created in captivity. Not only are they very difficult to produce (and NO, this has NOT happened in the Everglades, or any other wild setting), but they are SMALLER than either parent species. They do not get over 12 feet long. Some super-snake. The hobby name for a Retic/Burm hybrid is the 'Borneo Bateater'. If you cross a Burm with an Afrock, you get a cateater. Also a small snake. The combination of genes from the two species scales down the size. (Much the same way breeding a lion to a tiger scales up the size in the resulting offspring--Ligers are biggest cats on earth).
