Is she an exceptional egg layer?

2nd warning

 

BTW, thank you Rhonda, Taristar and Lisa for keeping the thread on track regarding the dragons well being.

After seeing so many necrospy reports of dragons that died early with fatty liver disease, we started collecting some info on what their diets where and also the diets of long lived beardies.

There is a direct link in early dead with dragon that were feed higher fats and protein foods such as rodents, dog foods, high fat wax worms and monkey chows compared to those that were feed diets of mostly greens, veggies and occassional superworms and crickets as adults.

It is felt that bearded dragons in captivity since they do not go through the lean and starvation times they do in the wild, are not breaking down the fats like they do in the wild and their diets should be low in fats.

We have never fed any rodents to any of our dragons, including the breeding females. If they are healthy to start, they bounce back from laying in a week or two with proper care.

 

Yes, now that you mention it, I have heard that the fatty diets can cause liver disease. Also, I do believe that I heard that the bones have a fairly high risk of impaction.

My female has bounced back beautifully after laying her clutches. All I do is offer her a healthy variety of greens and fruit, plus all the dusted crickets she can eat in a feeding of 10 - 15 minutes per day.

By the way, I'm getting two more females on the 19th!!! I'm so excited

 

Im glad someone said to not feed mice to bearded dragons. I had a hard time with that from the beginning but thought you had to, to have a healthy beardie. I just found out that my female is gravid, I can feel pretty good sized eggs. Im very excited but scared to death. This will be my very first experience with eggs and babies. Im afraid I wont get her in the laying box in time.

 

We just about didn't the first time! She had been digging in her enclosure for a couple of days when we realized that she was ready to lay. It was a mad scramble to get the box ready for her and as soon as we put her in, she went crazy digging.

Hurry, SnowWhite! If you feel good sized eggs, she's VERY close.

Good luck and congratulations!

 

She still has not begun digging yet. I have the lay box in wait for her. She was kind of an abused dragon so Iam very protective of her. I am afraid she will begin to dig at night and I wont be able to get her in her box. She has laid eggs before so she knows what she is doing and she is probably just laughing at me. She just calmly sits on her log and looks out the window. I just want everything to be perfect for her. Im a very worried parent.

 

We have notice our girls tend to have the fat pads on their heads start to go down some just before they lay and also many stop eating. From what we have seen, most tend to start digging and then can be comfortable with laying their eggs within the next 3 days. I think there is a few day window there that they can lay them if they want and holding them do not harm them.

 

Here's a sad story. I recently became good friends with a breeder in Ontario, Canada. She told me a story about her first female breeder. She said that after a couple of years, she decided to retire her and sell her to a good home. She sold her to a "nice" family as a pet.

A while later, the family called her and said that the dragon had died. And, after some further questions, she found out that there had been a couple of eggs in her enclosure when she died. The poor thing died of egg-binding because the family had no idea she was going to lay eggs.

This no way applies to you. You obviously know what you are doing. It's just a sad story that I thought I would share.

My female dug for a few days before she laid the first time. Last time, she started digging, we got her box in, and she laid right away. Who knows what she will do this time. I guess it is all up to them. It's like humans. Sometimes we are in labor for days, and sometimes only for a couple of hours.

 

Oh, one more thing. My female always lays her eggs in the late afternoon to early evening. I did some checking into this and it seems to be pretty normal for them to do so around that time.

 

Its been great talking to you guys and hearing different ideas, it helps a bunch. I do have a question Sweet Pea is not digging but she is constantly scratching at the glass in her tank. I have put paper around but she still scratches and scratches. Since she is gravid I dont know if this is related to that or if she just wants out. I did notice that her fat pads have gotten smaller (it was funny that you mentioned that). I think she is really close but Im just so unsure since this is the first time. It would be very convenient for her to wait until the late afternoon or early evening. :wink: RhondaC: That story breaks my heart :lol:

 

It's normal for them to go a bit wierd before they lay. Our girl Tiger races around her cage, scratches the glass, jumps on and off her driftwood. Then she will settle down for a while. Then back at it.

Sweet Pea is close. You should have eggs laid very soon.

:lol:

 

Rhonda, are you sure you dont have Sweet Pea in your cage. What you describe Tiger doing is exactly what Sweet Pea is acting like. Sometimes she justs sits and in the next moment she is jumping off her log and scratching the glass. I feel sorry for her. She acts like she wants out to be held. How long do you think I should wait before I put her in her lay box? :?:

 

Well, I would wait until she starts digging at her substrate. What are you using, by the way? Does she have access to her laying box all the time?

If she does not have access to her box and you are using carpet, shelf-liner, newspaper, or anything that she can't actually dig in, I would suggest this (it's what I do when I can't get the laying box in her enclosure):

Put her in her laying box, dig a small hole for her to get the idea, then leave her for a while. If she scratches at the sides trying to get out, put her back in her enclosure. Try that a few times a day. Eventually she will want to lay her eggs and do so.

I hope this helps! :lol:

 

If she is scratching at the grass, she may be looking for way out to find a place to lay that suits her. Do you have a lay box area ready?

You will need a larger sterlite or rubbermaid container filled with a diggable substrate. Many people use potting soil or a mixture of potting soil, sand and vermiculite. We have that and also have a laying bin of Warmed washed playsand, several of our girls perfer to lay in that.

Get the tub prepped and add her into it for a bit with a light and heat source. when she is ready to lay she will start digging around in it, sometimes in several spots til she is happy with where she can lay.. When she is done, she will "bull doze" with her nose the soile/sand back over the eggs and pat it down..... very hard work for her and she will be very exhausted when done.

A nice soak and drink is usually the next thing they like :lol:

 

When Tiger finished laying the first time, she was so exhausted. My husband set her on the couch for a moment (I forget why), and she crawled down inbetween the cushions. She slept there all night long. Here is a picture of it.

The poor thing was so tired.

http://www.reptilescanada.com/gallery/show...=500&page=1

 

that photo is adorable!

 

aww thats cute. Looks like she had a rough day

 

Cheri, l got told that you weren't to wet a dragon after they have layed as they are able to get infections easier!! ls this not the case!!!

 

That is what I heard, too. I often thought that she would enjoy a nice warm soak after laying, but didn't for that reason.

 

Unlike mammals, reptiles do not have their young attached to them, that have to detact from the blood supply source when they lay (have young). So there is no open wound area.

They are laying in soil, sand or other substrate that can irritate the cloacal area so the chance that clean water is going to cause an infection is much less than the soil she lays in might. Not saying it could not happen, but with ours and every breeder I know, it has never happen so I question that is could and I could find no credible source that stated that. I did find some advice on forums by lay people who had never breed a dragon or had one and they had "heard" this, but no source sited.... thats often where these rumors start.

A common practice to help a female that has problems laying or a stuck egg is to soak her in warm water and I did find MANY sourced of Vets and breeders advising that. I check several medical sources that are herp experts and all of them state to offer the female a soak after laying, I could find none that stated anything about risk of infection to the dragon. A few of the sources are Dr Kathryn Tosney, Professor of Biology, The University of Michigan who has raised & bred many bearded dragons, Ronnie Buck, Australian Bearded Herps (20 yrs experience) and every breeder we know.