I read recently of an open concept cage, whereby you have a large tree, and that tree is in a box. Essentially the box is only a couple of feet high, and the tree extends above it. The lights are suspended from the ceiling. So essentially, you have a tree in the middle of your room (or wherever) and the chameleon is in it, and it can't get away from it because if it climbs down, it's stuck in the box. It sounds like a neat idea to me. What do you all think of it?
I think I would be cool depending on your cham. Herbie hangs out in different places in the house a lot. I don't know about the box keeping him from roaming though. I think it would have to be a pretty big box. Do you have any pictures?
Nope. I read about it on a web site somewhere, and thought it was an interesting concept. I was curious what other people thought. Though yeah, it'd have to be a fairly large box. ^_^
i think it isnt very cool. it just depends what you're going for, cuz i wanna make the cage enjoyable for me too. so im puttin a chameleon water fall and various plants in. i think itd be kinda dull to do it with just one tree anda box. anywho, does anyone know how to feed a veiled? do you just put 5-6 in a bucket and let the cham get it it self?
I'd suggest against a waterfall, actually. They get really dirty, really fast. It's hard to keep them clean, and from what I understand the chams rarely drink from it, so it's kinda a waste of money (imo). As for the feeding, I suggest you make a new topic for that. If you don't, then you'll make it more difficult for someone to find information that they are looking for. People aren't going to go reading through a thread that is totally unrelated to find information on something they want, so they might miss out on something good. Similarly, someone might stop reading a thread they want to know more about because it seems to have derailed into something else, again missing something.
Hey, Sam - I like the concept of an open cage, too. I'd imagine that it would be hard to maintain reliable temperature gradients, though. Unless you have the entire setup with a small room so that you can easily maintain a constant ambient temp. You'd likely have the same problem/challenge with maintaining humidity. Tin
I'm not so sure that the temperature or humidity would be any more difficult with an open concept than with a traditional screen cage. A screen cage is horrible at keeping either temperature or humidity in it. In fact, when I moved into my house, I originally wanted Kirby to be downstairs with my computer, but I couldn't keep the temperature high enough for him here. My beardie, however, with his glass tank I can keep the temperature exactly what it has to be. I think that a screen cage, particularly a big one, is very dependant upon the ambient temperature and humidity anyways, so it wouldn't be any different with the open concept cage. The main difference would be that instead of attaching the light to the cage, or laying it on top, you'd need to suspend it from the ceiling. Depending on the size of the tree it might need more than one heat lamp to get a good gradient, but I don't see how that would be any different from a large screen cage either.
Split from open concept cage thread. Waterfalls are not good for chameleon enclosures. They breed bacteria and fungus very quickly and need to be completely cleaned and disinfected almost daily to prevent transmission of disease. As for open enclosures, read this article: FREE RANGE SETUP FOR CHAMELEONS
I have kept my vield in a 6 ft ficus in the living room for the last 5 yrs. He seldomnly will wonder off and I cant find him for a while but when I come home he has made it back home to his tree for sleepy time. I dont have the box you are talking about and I wouldnt bother unless you have cats. My pug is scared to death of the cham and will bark and run away. I think I posted pics of it but here is another one. I wouldnt do it for any other cham then a veild since humdidity is of more concern with panters and jacksons ect. I have a MVB 100 watt capture the sun and it has been great for me and he is healthy as ever. Check it out and try it, at worst you will have a out door spare tree for him or a new living room tree. No real loss here. If it doesnt work then back to the cage he goes. I will be honest they are the most fiesty of chams and he will make a run for the front door if it is open or will go for the other chams cage to torment them for the day. It is best to have him in a spare room where the door can be shut should it need to be. PS you will find his poop in odd places so be prepared. The good thing is that it doesnt smell and is easy to clean. Again take note of my lamp shade trick it looks very nice and gives it a better look. It also cuts the brightness of the light when you are sitting on the couch or looking at the side of it. Not sure why those silver domes are not deeper so that the bulb doesnt etend past it. Looks nice and works great. In my opinion you can not better maintain temps or humidity in a all screen cage so it is pointless to think that will in some way help. The gradient will be the closest spot to the bulb and about 2ft down from it. Humidity has never been a concern and I live in Southern California where it is 100+ deg now with no humidity. I spray him down about 2 times a day but sometimes I dont have a chance to. It has worked for me so far. There is one issue I should mention, they have access to burn themselves on the exposed bulb. Mine did burn his casque and it crusted over and flaked off from a point to more rounded at the tip. He is fine and recoverd well from it by usinf neopsporin and sunscreen during the healing process. Since then he has not had any problems but if you could suspend the bulb a bit higher at about 9-10 inches with a metal screen protecting him from getting to close that would suffice.
cool Thanks whitey: I think the open cage would work great for Herbie. I may just have it in addition to the cage now to give him a few options. your vealed sounds a lot like mine does he by change chase your pug? your has nice color. lots of orange
He is sure a little [edited by mod for language] and does puff and hiss at the pug. He head butted him once and now the pug wont go near him. He sure doesnt realize he is a fraction of the size, lol. It is a great cage idea but I would stress again the screen over the bottom of the shade to prevent the cham getting to close to the bulb and being burned. I added some decor to it and made it more sturdy with mazanita branches and grape vine all zip tied tot eh tree trunk. I cut the lid off a sport water bottle and zip tied it to the trunk and that is how I cup feed crix to him. The dripper is hand made as well but you can buy one just the same. Hardware stores sell some cool dry wall screws that tap into the dry wall first then you screw another screw into that. They are white and plastic and basically have really big threads on the out side with small sized threads on the inside. This way they tap themsleves into the dry wall then you have a screw hole left on the inside that can be used for the appropriate sized eye hook to hang the dome from. Its hard to explain but ask them and they will know what it is. I used eye hooks into the studs but you dont need to do that, the lights arent heavy and neither is the dripper. With the lamp shade I just cut out the center ring with some wire snips and kept cutting the metal prongs back until they just barely fit over the ceramic fitting on the dome light. This is important so that there is still metal contact to the ceramic and not the shade it self. It gets hot and metal contact is better than fabric. Damn its all hard to explain home made stuff but ask away and I will take more pics if need be.
It surprises me how much heat and humidity a screen cage actually captures. Of course a screen cage would not be as good as a glass tank at maintaining heat/humidity, but it is still better than an open cage - in my opinion. I've been able to maintain a pretty stable temperature gradient with my screen cage and my humidity has been a constant 80%. The humidity in my den (where they cage is) is around 55 - 60%. A couple weeks ago - I tried leaving the humidifier off for a couple days and the humidity in the cage went no lower than 75%. Then I tried leaving the cage door open for a day one saturday and the humidity dropped to 60%. It went back up to 75 when I closed the cage door the next day. Also - I have a friend who keeps a veiled in a screen cage almost identical to mine - except he leaves the top wide open with a 4 inch rim around the top edge to keep his cham from climbing out. He mists the cage 2 or 3 times a day but doesn't use a humidifier. His humidity is about 60 to 65%. He and I have both noticed a huge difference between the skin of his cham and Gojira's. His cham's skin is very dry - almost dull dusty looking, while Gojira's skin is always shiny - almost plastic - especially around the head area. You can see in this pic of him I took just yesterday: http://signalburst.org/tintruong/newpics/gojira3.jpg So last month - he got an ultrasonic humidifier for this cage and the interesting thing is - he couldn't get his humidity above 65% - even if he had the thing on the whole day. I gave him some of my moss to line the bottom of his cage and it still didn't help. Finally - he replaced the screen cover on the cage top and Bam! - 75% humidity. So in my opinion - I feel I have more control over heat/humidity with a screen cage than an open one. Unless - like I mentioned before - you have the open cage in a relatively small room so that you can control the heat/humidity of the entire room. Tin
Yes for you and the jackson this is much more of a requirement. The veild that I have ahs been fine and no health issues so either I got lucky or they can adapt to dry climits. Jacksons on the other hand have much lower temps and much higher humidity so anything will help. It is odd that you were able to prove screen cages hold humidity since logic would say it wouldnt make a difference. Good experiments and ifo for those that need the higher humidity.
Yup. I think Veileds come from dryer climate? So they require more heat and less humidity. Jackson's are from mountain areas so require less heat and more humidity. Although - the friend that I mentioned who just recently added a humidifier to his setup (and he keeps a veiled) says that his cham is more active with the humidity higher. The other interesting thing he noticed is that he actually has to reset his timer for his heat lamp because his cage temperature (with the settings uncorrected) was hitting higher marks with the higher humidity. I think it is possible to trap humidity and heat in cages that have finer screens (mine is window screen). In cages with larger meshing, I agree that it is exactly the same as an open cage. I notice that humidity - unlike heat - tends to build up slowly from the bottom of my cage and builds up vertically. I can see it clearly at night with a flashlight - there is a heavy fog at the bottom of the cage that thins out as it gets to the top of the cage. The fog is visible up til about the last foot from the top of the cage. So humidity is definitely being trapped by the cage. And as for heat - I think it is interactive with humidity. Meaning that the high humidity in the cage actually helps to capture heat in the cage. I notice this also at night: the temperature in my cage stays relatively high well after all the light and heat sources have been turned off by the timers. In fact - I had to get a swamp cooler to force the temperature down to the ideal 68 degrees night time temp. I think this is somewhat mirrored in nature - almost like a greenhouse effect. This would also explain the higher temperature readings in my friend's cage after adding a humidifier. Tin
Very cool, Whitey! My main thing with the box at the base is to keep him from wandering off and, more importantly, pooping elsewhere The GF is alergic to cats (all furry/feathery things, really) so other animals aren't really a concern.
There is a difference between an "Open Enclosure" and a "Free Roaming" setup. I believe Whitey has a free roaming setup. His cham can pretty much go anywhere within the room? If one were to set up an open enclosure - but yet limit the cham to a certain perimeter around the base of the tree - then is that really any different for the chameleon from being housed in a screen cage? I briefly entertained the concept of an open enclosure a couple months back (before I bought a larger screen cage) and quickly realized that almost all of the perceived "advantages" associated with an open enclosure were merely for my benefit - not the cham's. Just my opinion Tin
Well yeah. There would be no benefit to the chameleon, but there would be a benefit to me, as I wouldn't have to have a big screen cage.
THis is merely a "cool factor" and not of any benefit to the cham. In my opinion the set up is more than half the fun of having a cham. They are not lovable or holdable pets so you basically admire them like fish that live in trees. I have all my joy out of re-creating habitats and enviroments for them to be in. I dont think a day goes by where I am fooling with zip ties or pruning trees ect. With the open cage concept or what ever you want to call it I think there is more joy in watching the cham do his thing and visually the set up is more low key then a huge cage. I did make that gigantic cage as I have posted before andd I love it, but it stands out so much. With the other set up I have people ask me why I take such good care of my tree, not realizing there is a cham hiding in it. If you are worried about him getting out then I have considered makeing a plexi glass square border about 1 ft high around the base of the tree where no brances hang over the perimeter. Leave a rope tied to the trunk that touches the ground so he can get back up the tree. This way should he come down from the tree he cant go anywhere but back up it. If you leave foliage hanging over the plexi glass border he can hang down from it and make his way over the border. You get the idea, so have fun with it and enjoy your set up. Another idea is to aim a humdifer up at the tree from ground level and this will take care of humidity concerns. Note that like I said I have never had a problem and only hand mist my veiled. You can do what ever turns you on and learn from the chams beahviour on what you may need to tweak to make it right for him. Not all of them are the same and they have not been wild cought and taken to a different environment where they are in shock due to the sudden change. These are all captive raised chams and if you follow general guidelines of cham care you will be fine. I dont really think you can compare one cham to the next since there are so many factors that are different. Just because they are the same species doesnt mean that one could conclude their cham is better off then another with different heat,humidity,suppliments, ect. If I notice issues with my chams then I tweak their diet or cage arrangement ect unitl I see improvement. No book is going to tell you everything you need to do. For instance my Nose Be is so fussy with his eating and drinking but my Sambava is a beast and is very aggresive with eating and drinking. They are both Pnaters with the same requirements but much different behaviours. I had to keep increasing misting sessions unitl my Nose Be would drink and now I am having issues with him cup feeding. I continue to tweak things until I see him peform all necessary behaviours for good health on his own. At this time I am hand feeding him crickest but noticed he will free roam them as well. He for some reason stopped cup feeding. My new idea is to take a milk jug with the front cut away and place a stick in it so that crix can crawl up and down but still create the feel of freee roaming. This all boils down to getting your self the 6 ft tall ficus decorating it to your liking and his and if you see decreased eating/drinking patterns that arent soon self corrected tweak it and in the worst scenario put him back to the cage and you have a living room tree. Dont give up too soon and hand feed or spray bottle water in his mouth to keep him healthy during the chamge until he is comfortable enough to do it on his own. Give it a try I really think you will like it "Sam". This way there are no more worries on cage size and time to build it or maintain it ect. Ask me more ?'s or for more pics of what you need and I will help you out should you decide to go this route.
Very helpful, Whitey, thanks! I'm concerned that I may not have enough room for a tree outside of a traditional cage, since the foliage might dip low enough for him to get somewhere, and at least in a cage he could only go as far as the wall. Right now his cage is next to the entertainment center, so he might be able to get to it, and if the branches were too far out he might poop on the couch Actually, can you give me the rough diameter of your tree? It's possible that I'm over estimating the size of it. And Sam is fine. No need for quotes
Also - some chameleons need a visible barrier around their enclosure to feel more secure. In the wild - visible barriers could be surrounding trees, foliage, etc. Not all chams need this, but the ones that do will feel vulnerable with nothing between them and the "outside world". They may get used to it after a while - once they realize there's no threat, but may be stressed out for a while. Tin
