Pepito y su recinto de cristal!!!

Might want to look up the word "sarcasm"...

Chris

 

There is one thing that I absolutely love about these forums. People are so willing to share their expertise. Not many days go by where I don't learn something about how to keep my chameleons healthier. I can't say that I haven't gotten defensive in the past when someone tells me something I don't want to hear about my chameleons. However, after I take a step back, I always realize that it is what I need to hear to improve my skills as a keeper.

No one is trying to get on you about your cham. He looks like he is a pretty healthy boy, and the two things that Chris pointed out are easily correctable. Isn't it nice to know that there is a group of people out there who are willing to tell you what you can do better?

Heika

 

You first, since you seem to need it more than I do. :roll: You're more tactful than sarcastic at any rate.

Your superior attitude sucks. And unless you've written and published a book on the keeping of veileds, your opinions are hardly worth listening too at this point.

I agree entirely, don't get me wrong, this place is great. But there's a time and a place for helpful tips and criticism. It's not so much the tips, but the way they're being presented that's getting on my nerves. I already mentioned in post 1 that vI know what I'm doing wrong and that it isn't the "ideal" set up, so having the same facts restated to me over and over has become rather tiresome.

 

Well said Heika, and Renegade even if you have no plans to change the things that have been suggested you didn't have to say that - you could of just accepted the criticism with thanks and moved on.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate the tips, and have made notes on a few of them. It's that I'm getting the same ones over and over again thats buggin me here.

 

And just as an FYI.. Chris Anderson has a pretty hefty resume of chameleon experience. I would venture a guess that the majority of the people who write books about chameleon care have less knowledge about keeping chameleons than he does. I always pay attention to what he is saying, because I have never known him to be inaccurate.

Heika

 

He could be Dr. Dolittle and I'd still tell him to knock it off.

How about just letting the thread die and move on? Shall we? :|

 

I guess the sarcasm is just above you as tactful expression of sarcasm is still just that, sarcasm. Anyway, since you're having difficulty with it, my "compliment" was not a compliment, it was an attempt to draw your attention to the fact that you are not considering the best interests of your animal which is a mistake. Your cham may not be in horrible health but it is starting to show troubling symptoms which a serious keeper would want to examine and address. I'm just surprised you are showing such a lack of concern for your animal's health.

I don't really see why my qualifications are in question, its your cham and its care that is the issue of the thread, but as far as what I've published and done in chameleons, here you go:

I'm the Editor of the Chameleons! Online E-Zine and obviously have many articles published in it (http://www.chameleonnews.com)
I'm the founder of the Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) (http://www.chamaeleonidae.com)
I'm on the admin team for the Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD) (http://www.chameleondatabase.com)
I'm one of National Geographic's chameleon related topic interviewees (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._chameleon.html)
I'm listed as an aknowledgement in a couple of the best chameleon books currently on the market
I've been keeping and breeding chameleons for over a decade and have produced more chameleons of various species (including veileds) then you've probably seen, etc.

Back to the point, you seem to have a complex that leads you to believe everyone is attacking you right off the bat causing you to get defensive when there is no need. You were the one who decided to post photos of your cham and its setup which opens you up for comments. No one here has anything but the best intentions for your animal and I'm sorry to see that you don't have the same interest in your own animal's wellbeing. I'd say that the least you could do would be to show some desire to examine that which we've presented to you rather then get defensive off a post that was in no way an attack.

As I mentioned previously, I think you need to increase your misting and other hydration efforts and possibly cut back on his food intake or make sure he is eating healthy feeders. If you gave more information about what you are feeding, in what quantities and regularity, what they are being fed and how you are approaching your hydration, we might be able to easily help you improve these aspects of your husbandry and help ensure your animal has as long a life with you as possible.

Chris

 

You still don't seem to get that that was a joke...brilliant.


This was a picture thread. And again, where in my first post do I mention needing and/or wanting tips on how to care for my animal? I don't. Plain and simple.

So, instead of everyone giving me the same advice on changing my cage, upping his water, etc etc. in a thread that was meant for pics, why not just mail or PM them to me and keep this nonsense out of my thread?

I'm not against recieveing advice, it's the manner in which said advice is being presented that's pissing me off. I'm not feeling attacked, I'm feeling annoyed that my thread is now cluster-f**ked with comments on chameleon care which is not what I made it for.

I know whats wrong and what needs to be improved on. I've mentioned this ALREADY. I read through most, if not all of the problem topics in this forum and I know what needs to be done with mine. I've read every care sheet, magazine/internet article, and care book I can get my hands on...I know whats wrong and what I'm doing wrong. So when I say to knock it off with the advice....I mean knock it off with the advice.

Let the thread DIE.

 

You obviously know what you're doing since you thought that veileds lived in the desert. Sorry buddy, like it or not, you post photos in a public forum for chameleon care that shows inadequate care, you're going to get comments. People were not rude to you about it until you started telling everyone that you knew what you were doing and that they were wrong when you clearly are doing things wrong beyond what you initially acknowledged and going on about completely false information. Don't even start about being open to advice, you're clearly upset that anyone would comment that you were wrong in anyway and rather then talk about their advice, you jump off it with a "whatever, you're wrong and I'm going to do it my way anyway" attitude which does nothing then show everyone that you really don't care about the wellbeing of your animal and that the ego problem you speak of on this forum is most prevalent in yourself.

Chris

 

All I got out of that was "Blah, blah, blah, stupid n00b".
Your words are noted, and ignored.

Moving along...thread requested for deletion, since it's just a flame thread at this point, and way beyond what I made it for.

Further insults, tips/hints, and advice is welcome via my e-mail or PM.

 

Thank you for proving my point. Its pretty obvious that trying to help you improve the care for your animal is a mute point until you grow up and get over your ego that you so quickly accuse everyone else on the forum of having. Ohh well, you did a good job of taking a thread with some good advice and discussion and turning it into a perfect look at your character. Good luck with your cham.

Chris

 

Your first post was welcome. Put him on a diet and up his cage humidity and watering. Noted.

Your continual B.S. is aggravating at most and helpful at the least. I can be talkitive and welcome to advice, but not when it's crammed in my face over and over that my set up sucks when I already know that. Restating the obvious to someone dosen't make you, or anyone for that matter look all too intelligent. Despite everyone telling my that your the head-honcho when it comes to chameleons and their care, you strike me as anything but professional in the past 2 pages. Even after I've left this thread to die and have gone to move on you keep posting, as if to further insult me and show me up on this board.

Let it go pal. Fight's been over for a while and I still don't care what you have to say. If I want husbandry advice about my animal, I'll talk to/ask a member on here that's a bit more polite and a little less critical. So far tinster, and Heika are the only people that seem to match that description. Hopefully I'll find more.

Dead and gone already.

 

Thank you.

Hopefully with some of the extra money I'm gettin here I'll be able to give him a bit more. Just spent 100$ on my 2 leo gecko's I adopted (both owners no longer had room for them). So now that both of them are set up, he'll be gettin a few upgrades. I've had my eye on a 260g Reptarium from Exoterra, it'd be perfect IMO. Only problem is finding room for the massive thing >.<

I can admit he's not well taken care of and his setup is not ideal, but considering that's all I have at the moment, it's the best I can offer.

Once I can afford and clear a large enough space for a better cage, I can plan on what else to get him. Was thinking maybe a large plastic Ficus tree, or perhaps a small live one with just a bunch of vines and drift wood around the top. Dunno yet. The carpet on the bottom is also temporary, was starting to get worried about impaction since I had some repti-sand stuff before. I'll end up replacing that with some nice large wood chips eventually.

Thanks again.

 

I have the 260 gallon it rocks but YEs its huge and takes mondo space and lotsa foilage its awesome though well worth the cash thats forsure . WOOD chips arent wonderful IMO its hard to clean up and holds lots of moisture which can be bad aftyer a while as the underneath can get moldy very fast and can cost alot to keep replacing I have a flextray(exoterra) catches water and wipes clean as well and thats it on the bottom..they gemnerally dont spend time on the bottom and i have loads of foilage for him to get to the bottom Just an idea

 

I used to use wood chips when he was little (He's been in that cage of his since he was just a little terror). Hold good moisture in which helped with humidity much better than the sand I had did. But the cleaning thing I can relate with. What do you use as bedding? If any at all? Also if not wood chips then what would be good for holding in extra moisture to get the humidity up a bit (Summer's in full swing down here, and it's a 105 degree dry heat to boot, almost 85-90 degrees inside >.<)

May I also ask as to where you got your 260g at? And for what price? I've seen a few on-line for about 90-100$, but if I can find it in stores for close to the same price that'd be a bit better.

 

I think your setup looks alright but as already said you should probably try and get some more foliage and make sure the air flow is good.

 

I dont use bedding...and so far after 2 years have no problems with humidity i mist 2 times dialy and provide live plants as well as a self made water fall that sits on a bird bath(brilliant i think) the only pain is cleaning it everyother day(a must for bacteria) I hear you about summer YUCK the ehat is on lol but again have had no problems with my enclosure. I hear what your saying as far as wood keeping moisture in...but if not changed so regularly your run into the underside molding as well as a great place for his crix and other insects to hide in..just a suggestion!
As far as this massive enclosure LOL is was a little under 200 canadian quite pricey but well worth it...they do make a size smaller which is easier to find a place for it Im ina house and between 2 of those 260 gallon enclosures and 2 100 gallon beardie tanks plus fish im almost taped out for space LOL Although I DID find that my male cham once put into this enclosure went quite aggressive on me btu apparently quite normal for males veiled's

 

what signs? How do you know with only thie info given?

Renegade I agree with you, I have not found the proplr on this board very nice. I can't say I really blame them though, there seem to only be a handfull of ppl who know what they are talking about and the rest are noobs asking the same questions over and over again. But, the ones who do know somehting sure are quick to judge others. I think they just really care about the herps in the end but make such statements as if there credibilty were godlike.
unfortunatly this is the best herp board on the web.

Personaly I keep my pics off for this exact reason, and most questions I pm the freinds I have made before satrting a thread. Unless I am trolling for thoughts; keeps me from getting too upset.

I recently met a 7 yr old female veiled in that very cage. She had a small radio shack fan for circulation, one repti sun 5.0 and a heat lamp. No substrate, and a small hole drilled for drainage, misting system (three times daily, 2.5 minutes each) She had been one of four female breaders and was still gravid from her last batch. So I back you up man, don't let these guys get you down.

 

Jack,

Stop trying to bait me out. You got yourself banned from this and every other forum you were on (including a gun forum I noticed which I am not a member of) because you couldn't control yourself, you have no one else to thank for it. As far as my need to post my list of cham related publications and accomplishments, it was directly questioned what my qualifications and publications were to be making comments on the health of his cham so I posted a few of them as an answer to that question. I know it bothers you that you don't have any to list but please refrain from trying to contort the situation in an attempt to make it look like anything then it was.

As far as the cham in this thread is concerned, you'll note that I commented that the animal was not in horrible health (as you said, overall he is in good health) and simply noted two observations that could be improved upon in order to prevent them from progressing into a state that would shorten its lifespan. I maintain that while not extremely overweight, the folds in the ankles that are evident in each of the photographs are an indication that he is starting to become over weight and the keeper should keep an eye on it and take steps to prevent it. That was not intended as an insult at all. Further, you said yourself the cage seemed too desert-like and could use more foliage, etc. Based on the photos, his shed condition indicates a similar observation. While he doesn't show any signs of excessive dehydation, such shedding issues that are evident in the photos, if not addressed, over the long term can create renal problems due to chronic sub-optimum hydation. As I said, the cham is not unhealthy, it simply has a couple things that are begining to manifest themselves and the husbandry can be improved upon, like all of our husbandy (yes, even mine), to make sure its life is not shortened as a result.

My issue with the thread came with the attitude from the orginal poster that seemed to indicate a lack of desire to even consider the potential existence of the mentioned potential improvements and forming problems. Rather then inquire for more information before deciding whether or not it was something that needed a significant amount of attention, the immediate reaction was an "ohh well, I'm going to keep up what I'm doing anyway." Obviously the cham isn't dieing and is for the most part very healthy, however, the attitude presented was one of simply not caring to try to improve in places and that simply is unacceptable with a living animal that is taken into anyone's care.

Too many people are quick to write off losses as poor breeding or random deaths that have nothing to do with their care but ultimately, most of those can be traced back to that keeper's mistakes, even if they don't want to admit it. Catching problems early is one of the things these types of forums can be good for but it is only possible when keepers can get over themselves long enough to recognize that they aren't being attacked, they are being given a helping hand, even if they don't necessarily want to believe they aren't doing things perfectly.

Chris