Silkworms, possible link to a problem in Beardies?

Thank you for the clarification Cheri. Very interesting stuff. I ordered eggs about a month ago and my silkies are finally growing up and starting to DIE OFF. Now I believe I have this virus, very dissipointing. I only fed my dragons about one a day because they were small and seemed healthy, but now they are growing larger, and starting to look herniated as they did in wormspit's pictures.

I bought 500 eggs before this batch, and they lasted a long time and lived until they cacooned, and now they are laying eggs. I'm def going to buy new craft mesh and bleach everythign and rinse it like crazy before I let them hatch.

This is very frustrating, I hope the problem is taken care of very soon. I also hope the second generation of silkies doesn't contract the virus!

Thanks again Cheri, many others and I would be entirely ignorant to the situation if you hadn't pointed it out. We all apreciate and respect your insight .

Kory

 

Just curious, Kory, how big are the silkies getting when they start showing the symptoms?

 

Lets just say I started with 700... a 500 petri dish and a 200 petree dish. For some reason, the 500 petree dish died off right away... but I was on vacation and my parents were taking care of them. THe 200 survived, and I havn't fed them off yet. I have about 40 left of the 150 or so that hatched from that dish. They started dieing young for no reason, and continue to do so. I'm not sure why the larger ones survived. They look fine besides the hernia look. They're eating fine and right now havn't had any die in about a day.
I'm still hesitant to feed any off... I'm sure one or two a day won't hurt anything, but I don't really want to chance it.

Kory

 

Just an idea... wormspit said he picks leaves from trees to feed. Wild trees.

The feed can be the problem here. Infection in the tree maybe? Pesticides?

Everything I have ever read on beardies has cautioned me away from using plants and insects that have been fed/exposed to fertalizer and other posions. It seems to me that not EVERY breeder is having issues. Maybe they should look into where their feed is comming from. Might just find the root of the problem so to speak.

(please pardon my spelling)

 

I think we shoudl approach it as we do sand subs. Hold off till we know 100% it's safe, I know I don't want my pet to even be in the slightest chance of danger.

 

This is my first post here.

I just wanted to add that I have been hatching silkworm eggs from Mulberry farms back in Jan. (I'm pretty sure it was early Jan.). To date I have not had any of the problems accociated with this virus. Although I havent raised any long enough to cacoon they have been getting huge and I have not had any problems with mass die offs or anything. Taking into concideration that I recieved eggs during one of the most problamatic times during this whole ordeal and have not had problems. I would be more apt to relate it to environmental/cleanliness issues with individual grower/distributers.

 

Some of the people that raise silks commerical for sale have acknowledged that they have had a lof of problems with eggs and worms from Mulberry in the same time period, so it is very possible some of the eggs are infected with virus or bacteria and others are not.

I really do not think people that have rasied these for years have suddenly gotten bad with their husbandry or cleanliness

also, look on the news on their own website, they state they have seen bacteria issues on a daily basis they are dealing with, so I really do not think blaming the people who breed thousands of these a month and others that have done this for years without a problem is going to fly

 

I just found this on another site and I looked in the feeder forum here and do not see any thread about silkworms or people panicking like he says..... BUT, I do think the comment about crickets is rather reactionary and panicking!

Does anyone else see this thread as people panicking? We all know that there is no quality control on things like these for reptiles, the only control we have is seeing something that could be questionable and questioning it, making other aware of a potential problem and asking for answers or actions to stop a problem.

Whatever the reason any one stops selling infected feeders with anything, I am glad as it will lessen the chance that more infected feeders/worms or whatever are sold to owners and fed to dragons or other reptiles that COULD harm them. If I have feeders with "bacteria issues" I would not be selling them to others and I do not think anyone else should be..... just my personal opinion and sorry if that upsets the companies/people involved. It is something I think others should have been made aware of, I felt we all had a right to know that and share it with others.

 

::sighs:: Cheri, people like that make me want to swear off humanity.

X_x

 

Knowledge is power...scary to some...

For every action there is a reaction.
You have empowered pet owners who visit this site to make an informed decision regarding the care of our reptiles by providing information that you and others have personally observed. I'm sure drug companies do not like to put a million warnings on drug inserts- but that is what is necessary for people to make informed decisions. I would bet that silkworm breeders realize that this is an extremely valuable resource for lizard husbandry and don't care to hear from customers (like my husband BTW) who called to ask about the sick silkworms and possible links to unhealthy bearded dragons. It just so happens that I received silkworms for my new beardie the day that you posted about the "potential" (really sounds like panicking!) problem and I ultimately decided not to feed the worms to my beardie. My dragon was already sick and I made the decision to error on the safe side. Those silkworms were mine to pay for and mine to throw away if I wanted. I thank you for your information.

 

RE: Knowledge is power...scary to some...

Does anyone have a recipe for cooking silkworms? Maybe we could put some salt on them and throw them in the skillet... At least our silkworm money won't go down the drain! haha

 

RE: Knowledge is power...scary to some...

If you let them cocoon, emerge, mate and lay eggs. Then store the eggs in the refrig, they are not going to waste and you can be pretty confident that they are healthy as its the adult stage when the problems mostly show up

OR you can learn a new silk and use them for the silk

 

RE: Knowledge is power...scary to some...

heheh... I don't have any use for silk... but what I still don't understand is that if the virus is not transfered by eggs, then how did my Silkies get the virus? I bought and hatched them from eggs... I have about 1500 in the fridge right now, so I'm not lacking in that department.

Kory

 

RE: Knowledge is power...scary to some...

Where did you get the idea it is not transferred to eggs... it is from infected parents, but if the worms grow up, reproduce with no problems, chances are the eggs are healthy as the problems with the virus usually shows up in the 4-5th instar and they start to die off or you see that the cocooning is no right or even if they emerge they do not reproduce right and many eggs die off.

If they grow up, emerge and reproduce fine, chances are the new eggs are healthy and the parents were since everything was normal.

The bacterias I am not sure abouts, I think those are secondary to the virus, from the chow or shipping stress related..... sorry, unsure where that is coming from, but that is what is our biggest concern

 

RE: Knowledge is power...scary to some...

Very interesting! I'm glad you clarified that for me. Can't wait till the mulberry trees blume here so I can feed them for free!

Hopefully I can continue to feed healthy silkies! I love silkworms and my dragons love them more! lol

Kory

 

silkworms

Hi,
Haven't been on for awhile and now I notice this. Its sad to say that I have about 200 medium silkies now. I've had no die offs at all. Their growing with no problems. I will admit that I used to order my worms from Silkwormfarms.com and he had a problem. I wonder now if that is why my beardie died back in December. Thier worms were dieing off the first night I got them. Now I've been buying from Mulberry and have had no problems at all. I have my fingers crossed that I don't have that diease here. I've bought from Mulberry now since January and have had no problems. Please keep me inform about this. My beardies just love these worms.

 

After reading all of this I am confused. Should we feed silk worms or not? I would like to have some alternative to crickets in order to vary Einstein's diet. Thanks! :shock:

 

Once Mulberryfarms starts offering silkworms again, they will most likely be virus free... So in the near future we'll all most likely be feeding them off again.

Kory

 

Silkworm fungus making bd sick

I had no idea that the cause of my dragon being sick could be his dinner.
I now have 4 with health issues, 5 weeks after eating silkworms as their protein staple. My dragons range in age from 10 months to 7 years.

The silkwoms I have been ordering have come from the same place.
My previous orders had plump and active silkworms. My current order was another thing.

I received my order of 200 silkworms in a box with cardboard dividers (similar to what is used separating a case of wine bottles). My bulk orders usually come in cups. Upon arrival 53 were dead. Over the next week 1 to 5 were found dead daily. Approximately 100 were dead within a week.

I was beginning to think I might be in another world until I read this article.

Honey is throwing up slime and gagging, has blood in her stool, a stool that reeks, lethargic, sits continually in 100 degree or higher heat, and her eyes have been fully dilated for 2-4 weeks. Does NOT want to be bothered. 7 years old.

Girlie is blowing bubbles out of her nostril, lethargic, no eating or drinking unless FORCED to do so. She is a translucent and is sensitive to ANY changes be it diet or cage design. He eye lids are dark purple, looking like bruised eyes. Does NOT want to be bothered. 3 years old.

Spot is a rescue that is anemic and was finally showing signs of a pink tongue and scale color after 4 months of baby food and silkworms. Last week we almost lost him; he was vomiting blood. After 2 days in the hospital and special treatments, he has stopped vomiting, but continues to be extremely lethargic with loss of appetite. Old, age unknown.

Quasimodo has a stool that reeks and diminished eating. He is the least affected by this, but is also a youngster being 10 months old.

I dare say, over the next few months, all 10 of my dragons will show symptoms similar to these.

Thank you for keeping parents informed, I truly appreciate it!

It would be nice if the silkworm vendor shared the vet bill!

PS: I choose to keep the vendor anonymous until I have spoke with them.

 

RE: Silkworm fungus making bd sick

this thread was a year old and many of us have been able to raise them again (the silks) to full cycle with no problems now. Have you had fecals and gram stains done on your dragons to rule out other factors like crypto? or other bacteria